how much motor
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99544
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Topic: how much motor
Posted By: allispuller
Subject: how much motor
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 4:05pm
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How much motor would a guy need to turn 13.6x38 tires on a wd45 with the standard ring and pinion in a 5500 lb class in 1st gear without snuffing it
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Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 4:58pm
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Here's some variables to think about......13.6 x 38 bald tires take less HP than tires that are 50% tread and CUT........16 inch high drawbar takes less HP than a 20 inch high drawbar...... an NTPA certified 35,000 lb sled pulls harder than an Antique sled that weighs 6,000 lbs.........a damp clay track takes less HP than a sand dry track or hard racetrack. Now, how much HP do you have now and what tires are you currently using??
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 4:59pm
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Correction....damp clay track takes MORE HP than a dry sandy track....
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 5:12pm
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Not sure on hp never put it on a dyno but i have 312 ci d17 motor at 10.5 to 1 compression running 2100 rpms and i have 16.9-26 on right now
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Posted By: XT in pa
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 5:34pm
With what you have I think you'll need more tire than 13.6x38's.maybe 15.5 or 16.9x38's
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190XT,D17and 7045
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 6:02pm
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I just was worried about snuffin it cause i dont want to put the diesel rear in it if i dont have too
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 6:02pm
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And how heavy do you weight it for with those tires??
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 6:15pm
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I mainly pull 4000-5500 a couple tractor shows i go too make me pull in the 6500 3 plow classe but it on an antique sled
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 6:30pm
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I knew a guy years ago, that pulled a Super 77 Oliver. He had 13.6 x 38 Firestone F-151 rear tires that were cut and only had about 3/8" inch tall lugs max. He had them on wide rims, like 15 or 16 inches wide I'd guess. The point is, I've seen him weight that tractor up to 9,000 pounds before and never kill the engine in 1st gear. His engine was relatively stock. You could have farmed with it. 60 HP max. His secret was the tires would finally spin out before the engine ever quit due to the wide rims fattening out the body of the tire to float on the dirt and the lugs being short, so they never could get a deep bite of the dirt. He won many pulls and beat a lot of higher HP tractors with the Oliver and it was all the tires, good weighting front/rear and a smart driver.
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 6:39pm
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So do you guys think i will be fine with stepping up to tge tall rubber with out changing rearends?
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 7:04pm
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I don't know why you wouldn't at least TRY IT.
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Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 9:14pm
Oops
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 9:15pm
How fast are you pulling and what rear do you have now WD wd45 also what gear are you pulling in now
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 9:31pm
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I pull mainly 3.5 mph classes i just kinda wanted to get some other peoples opinions first before i went to the work of building a new hitch and wheelie bar set up to find out after the first time that it wasnt gonna work also im running a standard wd45 rearend
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2014 at 9:58pm
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Well designed drawbars and wheelie bars can accommodate the differing tire heights.
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Posted By: Juiceman
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 12:29pm
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You should be fine. We went to the diesel reared and regret it for 3.5 mph. We are only 298ci with 15.5s and it has only died once in 1st gear. 6500lbs pulling a full size drop sled.
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 1:48pm
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Ive heard people have regreted changing rearends and i didnt wantto if i didnt have to and end up regretting it
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Posted By: 56allis_msu
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2015 at 9:37pm
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Diesel rear end made my 45 a totally different tractor. Before the swap it died every time. Now I spin the tires 80% of the time. Pulling 1st gear 4mph. Tired are worn 16.9x38 uncuts
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2015 at 9:40pm
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If you go from 16.9x26 to 13.6x38 you will need more than a 45D rearend. MACK
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2015 at 11:09pm
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MACK what else are you suggesting i need
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2015 at 11:53pm
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56allis what has been done motor wise to your tractor
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Posted By: bigcountry48
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 1:16am
56 allis runs an e gleaner motor, it's a good bit bigger than a stock wd45 motor, but its a direct swap other than a few oil lines getting in the way. The e gleaner motor isn't that hard to find if you've got the money, and its probably the best bang for your buck.
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1950 B, 1952 pulling wd, and 1954 wd45
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 7:53am
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You will need a lower first gear or more hp. MACK
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Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 8:34am
Seems like a good time to replace the hand clutch with a wc transmission that way you get 16 gears but Check with the rules to make sure it's legal. I haven't found a place where it isn't but have had to plea my case a few times when asking around
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hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 10:12am
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How much bigger that stock is 56 allis motor
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 10:14am
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MACK do you think 312 cui with 10.5-1 compression at 2100 rpms is not enough hp
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 12:18pm
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I thought you were going to put on the tires and try it??? Report back with the results.
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 12:31pm
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Dr that is the plan as of now i bought a set of adapters the other day now just gotta find a good set of tires and rims and see what happens
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Posted By: 56allis_msu
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 4:34pm
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Allis Puller you're running more cubes then mine. Internally little has been done to my engine. All I've done are a few air flow tricks. Now I'd be lying if I said I was completely satisfied with the performance but as far as money goes, the rear end swap gave me the best bang for my buck. In the near future is like to punch and stroke my engine but in the mean time I gotta run on a budget. I agree with the Dr...there are tons of small things you can do to get a lot more. Change one thing at a time and see how it affects the performance of the tractor. Don't do what I did at first (changing multiple things). Then you don't know what helps and hurts. In my opinion I would do the swap and then work on air movement. Engines are nothing more then big air pumps. It doesn't matter how big they are if they can't move the air in and out.
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 4:49pm
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I plan on doin the tire swap soon along with the addition of murphys roller rockers before tge start of the season im not honna change rear ends unless i have to but hopefully that is not the case
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Posted By: bigcountry48
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 5:47pm
It's gonna be pretty fast with that stocks rearend so hold on lol!!!
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1950 B, 1952 pulling wd, and 1954 wd45
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 6:10pm
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The ground speed chart i got from the antique tractor pull guide had 1st gear at 4.17 mph
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 6:30pm
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My math says 4.2 MPH @ 2100 RPM's with a 13.6 X 38 (60 inches tall)rear tire in a WD-45 low gear. Which is 2.8 MPH @ 1400 RPM rated speed.
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 6:36pm
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Thank you dr i will have to measure the height of my tires to figure out how much my ground speed will increase
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 9:10pm
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312 ci will be a big help. 10.5-1 comp.-ro will also be a help if you can run a good enough fuel to use the 10.5 - 1.
A good MSD ing. would also be a help. MACK
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Posted By: allispuller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 9:12pm
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I run 112 octane vp fuel and have electronic ignition along with the 55,000 volt thunder volt coil
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