645 payloader
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98004
Printed Date: 13 Nov 2024 at 1:12am
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Topic: 645 payloader
Posted By: darrel in ND
Subject: 645 payloader
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2014 at 2:53pm
| Well, the 840 payloader I looked at last week I passed up. Just seemed pretty junky. Going to look at a 645 tonite, though. One issue with it, though , is the seller says that in lpw gear ot is just as strong as ever, but doesn't like to move much in high. Is this going to be a "don't walk away from it, but RUN!" Or will it still run a long time in low, or will that be soon to go out to, or is there some valve sticking that some marvel mystery oil may fix up? Any ideas? Thanks. Darrel |
Replies:
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2014 at 11:40pm
| Well,I ended up buying the payloader. I think I struck a fair deal on it, so that even if the tranny is beyond feasable fixing, I could probably get my money back out of it by parting it out. Still have to get it home. It's about 100 miles away. On my way down to look at it, I told my wife what the absolute most was that I'd pay for it. When I got to dealing on it, I asked the seller what was the absolute least amount he'd take for it. It was the exact same figure I told my wife, so I guess it was meant to be. Still open to advice on the tranny issue. Thanks, Darrel |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2014 at 4:33am
| Have not had to go into trans on wheel loaders yet Darrel, but my 605 and your 645 both use Allison trans, so even if a rebuild is required, it wont be cost prohibitive |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2014 at 5:01pm
| I am going to run this in the classifieds also, but I need a hood and radiator grill for this 645. Anyone know where there would be one? Thanks, Darrel |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2014 at 9:41pm
|
I've got a 545 that works well when it is just started but after getting warmed up, high range is barely useable. Changed the oil and after putting in the amount specified, it wouldn't move. Started pulling inspection covers and discovered the intake tube to the pump from the sump has a crack next to a holding bracket. Put more oil in and it works ok but not great. The only way to fix it is to pull the trans, which requires removing the engine after removing the hood and radiator. Maybe if we have some nice weather in the next few months I'll be able to tear into it. Sorry, I don't have any extra parts. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2014 at 9:52pm
| John, is there any way a person could weld it with a small wire feed through the inspection cover? Darrel |
Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2014 at 10:23pm
| I was just at General Gear. (www.tractorparts.com) He has a couple of 645s torn down, but I don't remember if he had a good hood or grille. |
Posted By: one54dodgetruck
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2014 at 10:29pm
|
If I remember right the 645 had issues with the transmission pump getting worn and having low pressure. I think it was only around $600 in parts and could be replaced in the loader Andrew ------------- 2 WDs B B112 D14 D15 shuttle 180 185 7040 Hd7w D14 D15 185 7040 pd |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2014 at 9:40pm
I'd be dancin in the street if that is the case. I'll have to check into it. Thanks, Darrel |
one54dodgetruck wrote:Posted By: one54dodgetruck
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2014 at 10:56pm
It might have something to do with a bearing in the oil pump Here is a quick search of what im thinking ------------- 2 WDs B B112 D14 D15 shuttle 180 185 7040 Hd7w D14 D15 185 7040 pd |
Posted By: one54dodgetruck
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2014 at 10:56pm
|
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?5102-Fiat-Allis-645-B&s=ff9d56d95b452375be4ef2874fe987ef
sorry forgot the link ------------- 2 WDs B B112 D14 D15 shuttle 180 185 7040 Hd7w D14 D15 185 7040 pd |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2014 at 12:30am
|
darrel, unfortunately the crack is in a place you can only see with a mirror. I did think about trying JB weld but I just don't think it would work.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2014 at 12:34am
| Mine had the same sort of issue, didn't want to go in high when you first shifted it. Turned out to be the linkage was worn, when you steer it from left to right after you shift the lever to high it would go...lol, and check to make sure the parking brake lever is all he way down, that affects the gearshift lever travel as well. |
Posted By: Dnoym N. S. Can.
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2014 at 7:34am
|
hope this mite help some http://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/Allis%20Chalmers%20Construction%20%26%20Fiat%20Allis/Wheel%20Loaders/645%20PM%20PRIOR%20TO%20SN%202032.pdf" rel="nofollow - 645 PM PRIOR TO SN 2032.pdf http://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/Allis%20Chalmers%20Construction%20%26%20Fiat%20Allis/Wheel%20Loaders/645%2DB%20PM%20%2373073134.PDF" rel="nofollow - 645-B PM #73073134.PDF http://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/Allis%20Chalmers%20Construction%20%26%20Fiat%20Allis/Wheel%20Loaders/645M%20PM%20%233055044%2D6%2D1.pdf" rel="nofollow - 645M PM #3055044-6-1.pdf http://www.minnpar.com/manuals.asp" rel="nofollow - http://www.minnpar.com/manuals.asp B:-) Dnoym |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 9:22pm
| Well, I got the payloader home yesterday, and am slightly dis-appointed, as low and reverse aren't as strong as they should be, either. It will be useable, but is going to need some attention. I was going to add a gallon of Lucas oil to the transmission, but the transmission is already over-filled by quite a bit. Could be due to the same condition as John, CO mentioned above. What would be the detrimental results of over-filling by another gallon? The oil does look very clean, but maybe I should drain it and change the filter and re-fill it adding the lucas. Or could just drain it down enough to add the lucas and try that. If it comes to needing to do something drastic like a tranny re-build, who is the master at that? Any thoughts? Darrel |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 10:35pm
|
The main problem with overfilling is the trans builds up more heat and also can cause foaming. Depending on what you use it for, you probably can get by this winter but come summer it will crap out on you after an hour or so of running. If you take the cover off the left side (looking forward from the back) the intake tube is easily seen. The bracket where mine broke is up above a few inches and with a mirror you can see it. I suspect you will have to pull the trans out and repair it. The good side of it is that parts are fairly reasonable and easily assessable. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 10:54pm
| How do you pull the tranny?My "new" 545B looks like the trans has to come out the back with the engine. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 12:34pm
| Now the dad gum thing won't start. Has like new batteries and starter, cables look good, has almost 13 volts, put jumpers on it also, and all I get out of the starter is the old clunk....clunk....clunk. It has always spun over to beat hell and started right up till this morning. Where do I start? Darrel |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 2:28pm
|
I checked the literature on the 645 and they are 24 volt machines. The 545 is 12 volt. One battery will draw the charge from the alternator and leave the remaining battery low. Check your grounds. Most of the time that is the last thing people look at. We have a large shopping center here in Eagan, and they guy is keeping the parking lot clean with a 645 Allis. She looks and sounds great and has been doing it for at least 4-5 years. They are a good loader even though they are old. These old machines will still be working long after all of the laptop repairable machines are melted into ingots and sent to China. ------------- Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025, |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 4:19pm
| 24 volt system? I'd better check into that. I know it has two 12 volt batteries, and I thought they were hooked up in a parallel, but I never followed the cables that closely. I am going to have take another look. Thanks, Darrel |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 4:47pm
| some one has converted it to 12 volts. Starter is stamped as 12 volts, alternator is 12 volt, and battery cables are hooked positives together and negatives together. I have the battery charger on it now, and I have 15 volts right on the starter. That almost seems like it is too much voltage, but still nothing but a clunk out of the starter. Darrel |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 4:54pm
|
If its a Delco starter, the engaging solenoid may be bad. With a heavy cable, jump from the hot post where the battery connects to the post on the starter bypassing the solenoid. I started our Cat 920 using that method until we changed the solenoid. Hopefully its not engaging because the flywheel teeth are bad. ------------- Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025, |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 5:21pm
| If I understand you correctly, I tried that. I put the jumper cable + directly on the starter's hot post (not the solonoid), and the starter spun over, but the drive did not engage. Darrel |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 6:57pm
|
If the starter spins, you have adequate amperage to energize the starter. Check the two small leads for continuity. This is a coil which pulls the drive into the teeth and energizes the motor. If it is open, then the starter solenoid will need to be changed. If you have continuity, it may be that the plunger is sticking inside the solenoid. It comes apart. Polish it up and try it. You may end up putting a solenoid on it, however. ------------- Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025, |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 7:46pm
| I am going to go with the idea that my solenoid has issues. I turned the engine over a little ways with a socket and breaker bar to make sure there wasn't a bad spot on the flywheel, and that didn't change a thing. So, I guess if I don't have to haul corn tomorrow, I'll probably be taking a starter off. Darrel |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 8:04pm
|
Darrel, According to my shop manual it's just three steps to repair the transmission- Remove the hood and radiator, remove the engine, remove the transmission. There you go, two, three days should do it! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 10:57pm
| Well I have part of the battle won already: the hood's off! Darrel |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 12:49am
| To help keep the project on a positive note Darrel, they are a great loader, and as Curt said, they will be around long after all todays electronic control junk is dead and gone. While on logging trucks years back, many crews in the forests loaded us with 645`s. Some used Cat 950`s, and a few had IH loaders. The Allis was head and shoulders above the rest for lift capacity and reach. We`d arrive on their landings and skids, the 645 would grab our 3 axle jinkers, lift them clear of the truck bolster/stauntion, reverse out, line up the pole eye with truck coupling for us to drop the pin in, then with a couple of back and forward moves, stretch the pole out without us moving the truck, then start loading. In the time it took the 645`s to do that and have a bed of 40` logs on the bolsters, the Caterpillars were still stuggling with getting the jinker off coz the they didnt have the reach to get the pole over the truck stauntions - we had to drive forward for them. The IH loaders, well they were still carrying the jumper cables across the landing to get them started. |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 4:12pm
|
Darrel: The solenoid is separate and will come off as it is screwed to the starter case with 4 screws. They are a very common item and should be available at NAPA. ------------- Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025, |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2014 at 5:52pm
| solenoid was the problem. Don't have er back together yet, but hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for all of the help and encouragement from all of you guys on this project. Later, Darrel |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2014 at 5:10pm
|
It will take you some time to get the little bugs out of it, but that would be the case regardless of the brand. Hang in there. ------------- Curt Anderson HD3, HD5B, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400,615, 616,620,720,ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Grader, AC 540 loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity tractors, Agco MT225, Agco 2025, |
Posted By: 1941jim
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 11:06pm
|
Your 645 you can gut the clutches out of the front. The cover on the front is aluminum remove it and you are in the high gear clutch pack there is a snout that sticks out and has sealing rings on it. That is how high gets its oil and they have been known to break. Then low and reverse. Take the cyl. Off and retract it will give you more room. The back side has the converter and pump drive gears and sprague. The steering pump is on the ladder side and the charge pump is under the lift pump. If you have good pressure and it doesn't shutter when in the gas trying to push I would bet converter or sprague. The converter has a little snapping inside that the parts book or repair does not Show if that fails it lets the two halves run into each other and they don't last 5 min. And get real sluggish. How do I know we ran 645 and 745 loaders for years and have had every bolt out of them. The sprague ass. Will get destroyed if you have a pin head in it shifting rev to forward and not bringing the RPM down. To get the tranny out Remove hood,remove radiator and steel shell together. There are 4 3/4 bolts holding it on,set it down on 2 4x4 blocks where the frame would be that way you don't smash the lower radiator. Next drain oil out of the tank about 40 gal. Take steer pump off and feed and pressure lines off the pumps. Take shift linkage off and the temp gauge. Remove driveshafts. On the ladder side on the bell housing right ahead of the oil filters there is a 1"plug remove. Inside there is 12 3/8 Bolts recessed inside the flywheel. USE A LIGHT NOT YOUR FINGER TO FEEL FOR THE HOLES ,turn engine by hand IT WILL CUT OF THE END OF YOUR FINGER! Yes we had that happen. Take 4 bolts out of rear engine to frame remove throttle rod,battery cables,charge system. Hook chain and lift gently ,remove 12 bel housing bolts and engine slides forward take GREAT care on the flex plate on the converter as they bend easily. At this to get the tranny out you need to jack the tranny up just lightly,remove the two oil cooler lines and the tranny mounts.THE MOUNTS are all what is left holding 1100 pounds up. If you are still alive carefully let it down to ground take great care of the valve body on the right hand side of the tranny don't hit it! Dent it and 800$ gone. Once on the ground put a come along on the top of the tranny,there is a lift point up there that you can screw a eyebolt in. Next you must raise the rear of the loader off the ground 28" block it good. Let the tranny down while rolling it towards the rear of the machine next drag it out and you have earned a days worth of work. If you take the tranny apart call me I will help as there is 4 different valve body gaskets. Do not interchange as when you go to high it will put it in two gears at the same time and stop in record time with you against the windshield. Also sprague goes in one way backward and you start all over(yes I've done that) they are a real simple tranny and work great just have to take your Time on repair. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2014 at 10:37am
| 1941jim,is the 545B about the same for tranny removal. Talked to old dealer who said they blocked machine up and pulled trans out the bottom. |
Posted By: 1941jim
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2014 at 11:40am
| Yep there is no way to get them out the top without a fire wrench |