Gov Springs
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96321
Printed Date: 28 Nov 2024 at 2:54am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gov Springs
Posted By: Lunker
Subject: Gov Springs
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2014 at 9:51pm
I purchased a D17 and a 170 Governor Spring from AGCO.
The D17 Spring cost $68.00 and the 170 spring cost only $37.40!
Go figure!
I measured and compared the Spring tensions with an old WC spring!
It only took 8 pounds of pull to expand WC spring 1/4".
It took 20 pounds of pull to expand the D17 spring 1/4".
It took 24 pounds of pull to expand the 170 spring 1/4".
The 170 spring wire diameter is .005" larger than the D17 spring.
Lunker
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Replies:
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2014 at 5:46am
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Odd, most people say the D17 spring gives more RPM than the 170.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2014 at 6:51am
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It does. I recently bought a new 170 spring too, and it isn't correct. That's what happens when you lose the old original Supplier. I replaced my new 170 spring with a used D-17 spring and had less RPM's. That is NOT the way it is/was supposed to be. 170/175 governor weights are LIGHTER than D-17 weights, therefore they take less of a spring to achieve the same top 2000 RPM's. I also ordered two new governor weights for a 170/175 and tried them...then removed them. They are not made to the same specs as they were 20 years ago and are clearly not the same part.
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Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2014 at 8:29am
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I put a 170 spring on my D17 this year and gained about 200 RPM. Spring came from Sandy Lake, not sure how old their stock is.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2014 at 9:18am
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I was so disappointed to spend the $$$$$$$$$$ to buy what I thought was new and correct AC parts and see that the Supplier AGCO uses can't even reproduce things correctly.
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Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2014 at 9:33am
Kinda like when the WIX filter fiasco happened. AGCO filters did the same thing.
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Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central.
We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543
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Posted By: edward745
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 12:11am
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agreed Kinda like when the WIX filter fiasco happened. AGCO filters did the same thing.
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http://www.solitaire-champ.com/%20" rel="nofollow - solitairechamp inc.
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Posted By: 2wise4agm
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 6:53pm
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What is the wix filter fiasco?
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Posted By: Zaddison
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2015 at 8:01pm
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Does anyone know the thickness of the 170 weights by chance.
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Posted By: bigcountry48
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2015 at 11:10pm
I have a 170 spring on my wd, with stock weights and its running 2400 rpm. The 170 spring from agco does run more rpms than the d17 spring. It only runs 2200 rpms.
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1950 B, 1952 pulling wd, and 1954 wd45
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2015 at 7:23am
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And I have experienced the same thing recently. It appears that the parts provided by the current Vendor to AGCO isn't anywhere near correct. A correctly tensioned 170 governor spring will run 150 to 200 RPM's LESS than a D-17 spring with standard governor weights. That is a fact that I have known for more than 40 years. I had a Uncle with a 170 and my Dad had a D-17 and I KNOW what differences there were in governors, governor weights and governor springs on these two engines since I was a teenager. The p/n for a 170 spring is 70226785 and is a spring that was used in a WD or WD-45 engine for an extra 100 RPM over stock which makes it 1800 RPM instead of 1700 RPM. This replacement AGCO spring that runs 2400 RPM instead of 1800 RPM should be addressed by AGCO Parts, but doesn't seem to be on their radar screen of things to worry about.
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2015 at 8:31am
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Years ago when I had to run a govenor, I would lighten the weights which would let them open at a lower RPM. E Gleaner weights have a different ramp which makes them more responsive. MACK
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2015 at 8:37am
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The governor weights for a WC-WD-WD45-D17 and E Gleaner are all the same, EXCEPT for the ramp, which like Mack says, is different on the E combine engine. The model 170-175 governor weight is DIFFERENT and has a different ramp as well. I not only am disappointed in the governor spring replacement parts problem, I also purchased a new set of 170-175 governor weights and while the weight was correct, the RAMP isn't made correctly like it was 30 years ago....Again a Vendor problem !!
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Date Posted: 11 Oct 2016 at 8:45am
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2016 at 10:18am
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Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 8:51am
Don't like the spam post, but the bump was nice. This thread clearly explains the governor differences that I found by piecing together info from a bunch of different topics and part books.
It is very upsetting when these good old parts are either wrong or discontinued.
What I don't understand is why the obsession with these springs??
If you up the RPM on your WD45, you screw up the PTO AND you can't really pull a bigger plow or disk. You just pull the same implement a little faster.
If you're pulling you probably don't gain much except for right out of the gate either. When you starting to lug a little, the butterfly is already wide open.
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Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 9:17am
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Power would be the same at rated RPM, however you are making more power via higher RPM longer till it drops to rated RPM then you are the same.
If 1400 was stock and you are now at 2200, that is a lot to work with.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2016 at 11:22am
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A WD-45 in LOW gear at 1700 RPM wide open is 2.75 MPH with 14.9 x 28 tires. The same tractor at 2,200 RPM runs 3.6 MPH. There is no downside to this when tractor pulling, and oft times the tractor can't handle second gear anyway.
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Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2016 at 12:45pm
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I always felt there was more to be gained by modifications to the weights than the springs myself. The spring only controls maximum RPM, the ramps and weight configuration allow tuning the governor to perform best within a predetermined RPM range, and if you are not doing this, you are leaving power on the table. This would be the reason why power unit and combine weights differ from tractor weights, the former are meant to operate at a rated RPM, whereas the tractor is expected to perform under a load at various RPM's.
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