301 turbo
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Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95830
Printed Date: 24 Nov 2024 at 7:49pm
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Topic: 301 turbo
Posted By: Rw9085
Subject: 301 turbo
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 11:20am
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I am wondering what would be a good turbo to replace a old to4b air research on a 301 engine it has had the pump turned up some and shows 150 horse on the dyno the motor is in a 180 allis thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: Tim-tn
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 7:56pm
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A Holset would be a good choice,but keep in mind if you shy away from the AirResearch you will have some fabbing to do to make it fit. It can be done just takes a little time.
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 8:19pm
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Not sure what you are trying to do, but if all you want is 150 or so horsepower, stay with what you have or upgrade to a 7020 turbo. It would be a direct fit to what you now have.
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Posted By: Rw9085
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 7:53am
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I just am looking for a more efficient turbo and I want as much power as I can get with that cubic inch and a 370 head on the pump. I don't want to big of exhaust housing cause I pull speed limit class at 4 to 6 mph so I need low end and quick spool. I just figured there has to be a turbo out there that I can get more out of seeings how that turbo was built in the 60s and technology has came a long way.
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 8:13am
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Any current models from Holset, Garret, or Borg Warner will be more efficient than the old Air Research. Measure the wheels on what you currently have particularly the inlet of the compressor. Find something of the same size in a current production unit (HX35 - GT30 - S200). You are correct. Anything newer will be more efficient.
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Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 8:33am
Hy35, he341 or he351 holset would be a good choice
I've got a he351 on my 185 and love it. Dang good turbo for the money.
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7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 9:33am
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Some of the HE and HY models and possibly some HX series Holsets have variable geometry turbines which in my mind would not be ideal for pulling. Would work great on a farm tractor.
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Posted By: Juiceman
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 9:54am
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i'm pretty new to turbos, however, I have read how variable geometry turbos work. Why are they not good for pulling? Like i said i don't know much, but i'd like to learn.
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 1:06pm
Good question. I'm not sure I can answer it intelligently. My first and probably best answer would be that anyone serious about pulling does not use them nor do any of the pump / turbo shops that build high performance parts recommend them or use them in a pulling application.
From what I understand the VGT turbo's are similar to a waste gate as they are a controlled leak within the exhaust housing. The more exhaust gasses released from the engine, the bigger the "leak" gets in a effort to keep the turbo shaft at a reasonable RPM and the boost pressure at a reasonable level. The leak is wasted energy which is affordable in a stock application - not so much in a pulling application. They were designed to have faster spooling time than a typical fixed exhaust housing so when you leave a stop light with your Dodge Cummins pickup it has good power at low engine speed. Typically the turbine wheels on VGT type turbo are smaller in diameter which isn't great either for pulling. With that said, I have wondered how the correct waste gated turbo (with mods done to the gate) might work in a 3,000 RPM limit class. Never tried it.
Google VGT turbo's and you will see the variable vanes built into the exhaust side surrounding the turbine wheel.
With a pulling turbo on a diesel, you want to drive it as hard as possible without blowing it up and yet have enough exhaust flow so the engine isn't constipated. The properly sized turbine wheel and standard exhaust housing is best for the job with no energy being wasted.
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Posted By: Juiceman
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 1:21pm
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Yea read up on how the vgt works in a truck application. Thats why i was wondering if it would work on a 301 in a paced class. Then i kept reading the post and found out that they neccesarily wouldnt be. But im glad i know that now. Just a kid trying to learn. Lol and i know some of the boys that pull open diesel trucl class around hear which boils down to a 2.6 class will actually ride the brakes down the track to a certain point to keep that boost built so when they need it at the end they have it.
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 2:08pm
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If a waste gated turbo was used, and the gate was set to open starting at 40 lbs. of boost vs. 12 lbs. It might work better than a standard housing for a paced class or limited RPM class. The gated housings would be easier to do this with I would think. I'm not sure how a VGT is actuated or if it can be bypassed / monkeyed with easily.
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 3:11pm
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a VGT turbo has vain in the exhaust housing witch changes the geometry of the ex housing for better efficiency and quicker spool. it is controlled with oil psi and solenoid. the vain pos. sensor tells the computer where the vains are positioned. the computer changes the vains determined by the rpm, load, gear, and thotel by opining closing the solenoid letting oil psi in or just dumping it in the return. if you ever had one apart you would know why its not good for pulling i could see the vains tips burning off and there petty expensive just to pull a stock mph class when fix or wast gated turbo has been proven. if ever had a wonderfull ford 6.0 "sarcasm" you know there not the most relabel on them motors
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 3:16pm
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also with a good scan tool on a pick up you can build about 8-10 psi of boost just settin there in park at a 1200 rpm. by moveing the vain% threw the scan tool. most places it in the rules "no VGT turbos" thats more truck guys tho i think
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 3:22pm
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Major tractor pulling organizations (NTPA-Outlaw-PPL, etc) do NOT allow such turbos on anything.
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