Coggonobrien's 616 Thread Picture Heavy
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Garden Tractors
Forum Description: A great place to discuss the Simplicity and Allis Chalmers Garden Models
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95728
Printed Date: 20 May 2024 at 11:33pm
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Topic: Coggonobrien's 616 Thread Picture Heavy
Posted By: coggonobrien
Subject: Coggonobrien's 616 Thread Picture Heavy
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 12:55am
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going to start documenting my 616 as we work our way through it. So far it's been fairly cheap.
616 tractor no engine or deck $70
nos onan 19.5hp $500
original mower deck needing restoraion $100
original not stuck 3pt top link $20
original running 616 parts engine $50
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Replies:
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 12:57am
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parts motor
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 nos onan 19.5hp
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 12:58am
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as she sits today
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 12:59am
| i've got a 620 lined up i need to pick up soon as a parts tractor, it has rear pto, front hydraulics, another deck, a single bottom plow, and a dozer blade |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 1:02am
| also need to dissasemble the brakes, right seems to be seized up. will get to that after harvest then we will throw the motor in and see what else is wrong once it's running. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2014 at 7:01am
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Cog, Any progress on your project 616? Just curious. Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2014 at 9:48am
| no progress, in the field now and I work in town. just collecting parts and will hit it hard when the snow fly's with the goal of having it ready to mow come spring |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2014 at 12:38pm
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Got some tires so it will be back on it's own feet. Front's were $160 for the pair installed, rear's were $100 for the pair on wheels. New Carlylse's on blasted and painted original rims http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20141114_112228_zpsbsbunocn.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Perfect original tires on original rims, will eventually be blasted and painted http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20141114_112159_zpsgcdcyvc0.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20141114_112206_zpstifiisos.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2014 at 12:28am
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up on all 4
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2014 at 9:21am
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Hey Cog! You're gettin' there. Little by little. Now ya need ta' git' that engine set up. You're farther ahead than I am with my 620. Keep rollin' ! ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Slade (TN)
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2014 at 11:10am
| I want one someday!!! Or a 620, or a 720.......a miniature 190 :) |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2014 at 6:12pm
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well she's on the move, hauling down to dad's insulated shop to start the motor install. wish me luck. http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20141213_105907_zpszhe5c1gy.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 11:14pm
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 5:36pm
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Cog! Did ya git' that motor set up and fired yet? Just curious!
------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:23pm
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Cog, That is a nice looking garden tractor. I would drive that! Looking forward to your restoration work. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 12:16am
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no updates yet, just rounding up some parts for the engine install. Did get new blades, bearings, cups, and seals for the deck for christmas so I will be dismanteling that and blasting the shell, repairing some minor rust and reassembling. should hopefully start on the motor Wednesday.
David
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 6:10pm
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started stripping the good engine tonight. pictures to come. anybody recognize this pulley? was thrown in with the tractor when I bought it and has paint marker on it saying either 616 or 919. David http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150102_170034_zpsmiitwrfl.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150102_170024_zpscaai0nxd.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2015 at 12:18am
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made a little progress while i was installing a tank heater on our skid loader.
big a## fly wheel be gone
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2015 at 12:19am
| i plan on swapping the ring gear over to the flywheel from the donor 616 engine assuming they are the same size since the teal engine is nos |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 9:40am
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pulled the cover and fly wheel off the parts motor today. looks like the ring gear's are the same so I will be transferring the unused one over to the correct fly wheel. http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150108_091216_zpsvmc66f0x.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  anybody know how to safely remove this guy so I can transfer it? http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150108_091232_zpsfveaapoa.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Roach
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 12:39pm
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David, the pulley looks like the center main pulley on the mower deck of my 720. When I bought mine it had another pulley with it just like this one but a lot smaller in diameter. Don't know if they had different sizes for different mower speeds or not but not figured out anything else. ------------- 1937 WC, 1948 G,1954 CA,1956 WD45, 1967 D17, 1937 M crawler, 1963 D-19, 1966 190XT, 1967 D-15, 1948 HG42 Cletrac, 1955 G456 Terra Trac, CAT 10 1928 and CAT 22 1938 |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 2:28pm
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Gently take the 4 screws out that hold it to the block. That's how I removed mine to clean all the grass and crap out of the stator. Looks like that one has the same issues. Needs a good cleanup. Mine came right off Dave. I didn't have any problem with it. Inspect the stator wires for breaks or rub-thoughs. The wires on mine had a couple nicked spots. Its all repaired and ready to reinstall now. ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 5:00pm
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Thanks guys. Steve what's the proper way to clean the stator |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2015 at 6:23am
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Dave, I cleaned mine with Brakekleen and a new toothbrush. Got in the nooks n' crannys with the toothbrush, and washed it all out with the straw that comes with the Brakekleen. Came out like new. Then I cleaned the stator tips with a scotchbrite pad to get any corrosion or years of crap off of em'. Inspect the Magnets in the flywheel also to make sure they're still intact. I cleaned the flywheel all out to. Went through a can of Brakekleen between the two pieces... ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2015 at 9:22am
| Steve' comments about flywheel are spot on. A magnet came loose on mine and did considerable damage. Bought a used stator and flywheel from a forum member that was supposed to be good. Have also bought a new Onan regulator and rectifier and have about $450.00 stuck in job and doesn't charge. So disgusted after pulling engine twice looking for reason that I put back together last summer and gave up. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2015 at 10:01am
| After consulting with Dr allis I'm going to use his method of a light soft brush and lots of air to clean the stator. No chemicals to ensure I do not damage the coating. Thanks for the advice everybody. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2015 at 7:48pm
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Just order a replacement engine harness from B&B custom circuits. Does anybody know a Delco spark plug # |
Posted By: Chuck...the Janitor
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2015 at 8:22pm
| just went to check and ACDelco C45L is what is on my 616. runs great too. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2015 at 6:43am
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got plugs picked up last night. they did not have any acdelco c45L so went with these. http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150110_175233_zpst3ooxidr.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2015 at 1:43am
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The left hand discharge mower decks used a smaller diameter cast drive pulley. These decks were used on the 5015 and 5020 tractors. With the lower ram diesel engines the deck had to be geared up to run a at 3600 ram. This was done with the smaller deck pulley. I have one of these smaller pulleys and can check the casting numbers but I'm not at home right now. ------------- Yea, I can fix that..... |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2015 at 2:50am
| gotcha, found the timing cover on my nos is the same casting but not machined to accept the stator. Cleaned up the old ccka timing cover and got a new crank seal and cover gasket. Just waiting on the arrival of the governor seal. Anything special when reinstalling the cover? Or just make sure the governor is oriented the right direction. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2015 at 11:55pm
| still waiting on governor seal, should be here friday. unfortunately noticed after cleaning that my flywheel is cracked so I will be purchasing a replacement. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 11:57pm
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new lip seals installed in the 616 timing cover, new gasket, a dab of silicone and it's torqued down. I was surprised to find the governor shaft was different on the cckb engine which was kind of disappointing but there was minimal wear on the 616 so we used it. Now just trying to line up a new flywheel as we discovered a crack in mine. David
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2015 at 4:05pm
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finally got a little work done today, swapped over the correct cckb timing cover and the oil pan from the ccka (same casting but not machined to mount some of the extra doo dads) just an fyi if you need onan parts call a cummins dealership, they own them now and the prices will be less than half of what agco charges
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 7:28pm
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Finally got a charging system to match the fly wheel http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150227_153537_zpszzw6tbdi.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150227_174111_zps4f3whh3b.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Looks like the carb does not have a return port http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150227_174127_zpsxo2f2p5s.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150227_174136_zps5aku43ti.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 7:51pm
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How much was the stator? Where did you find it at? thanks tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 7:57pm
| Board member sold me the stator with new rectifier and regulator for 105 shipped |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 7:59pm
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Was the engine for a generator? I have one similar to that one. Thanks tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 11:53pm
| yeah i think it was a generator engine. had no charging system and a big squirel cage fan mounted to the flywheel |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 8:22am
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Dave! Glad to see you finally got something to work for ya! Great to hear! Over another hurdle hopefully... ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2015 at 4:59pm
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ok discovered another hurtle as most of you probably know. front crank support is different (my generator motor does not have holes for mounting the front clutch magnet) will be calling cumin's tomorrow to order the gasket and lip seal. http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150322_143345_zpsuaulpisf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  replaced the transcooler hoses while the engine was out. Got the b&b wiring harness spliced in and needing some direction from folks. I've got it sitting in the harness loop leading to the front rail but unsure how to route it from there. Does it just sitting inside the right between the right side of the engine and the rail? how do the wires route going to the ignition, charging system, starter and electric clutch? also this little do hickey was on the yellow wire of what was left of the old harness. Do I need it? http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150322_143454_zpsqfskp5nl.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  and where do these newer rectifier/regulator get mounted? http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150322_143528_zpspuq9xeqi.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  does anybody have part 46 from this drawing and the stud and want to part with them? http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150320_172347_zpsyd1nq9w7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3 Can someone show me how the cckb pre-cleaner mounts to the engine shroud and if there is a hole cut in the shroud to let air in. and finally I need a belly pan so if somebody has one they want to sell reasonably let me know or I might just cut one on the laser at work. THanks! David |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2015 at 7:32pm
| anybody? |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2015 at 7:22pm
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2015 at 9:05pm
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Sorry Dave, haven't been keeping up with your post lately. That do-hicky is a circuit breaker. Its located between the starter sol. and the wiring harness. That is you power in circuit. We have those in stock, but you should be able to pick one up in a Napa store or equiv. locally. They're usually 20 amp. The VR/Rectifier usually mounts down on the lower flywheel shroud. That one is a replacement which is much smaller than the original. I don't know if you need the muffler shield anymore, but there's a guy on e-bay that has a bunch of shields.... Steve Forgot to add- on my 620, the harness just layed down along the inside of the frame rail between the engine and frame rail. Not sure if it was like that originally, but my 620 was pretty much untouched by the PO... ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 11:03am
| awesome thanks Steve, you don't happen to have pictures of how the wires are routed up to the ignition do you? |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 11:44am
------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
coggonobrien wrote:Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 11:53am
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Tracy, I'm going to strip it down and blast it. Then patch, paint and reassemble. I've got access to a laser at work so parts ought to fit pretty nice. Any particular spots you feel need attention besides the upper right corner? |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 5:13pm
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The worst thing about those decks, is where they catch debris under the belt guards. They tend to rot out there, to the point a spindle housing will break out. ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2015 at 7:59pm
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front hubs are back on but no pictures. total cost for all new bearings, races, and seals was $72.04 part numbers all x2 timl44610 $5.8115 TIMLM11949 $10.5320 TIMLM11910 $5.6646 TIML44643 $12.4909 WHLBPGS100 $1.5274 |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 7:51am
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Made some progress with my best shop manager last night. Definitely the highlight of her day. Engine is together with correct crank support. End clearance at .009. Hubs assembled and wheels on. Deck spindles all of. Deck is almost ready for sand blasting. http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150409_171448_zps5h8cievf.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150409_171500_zpsyxyie9jj.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150409_171620_zpsoolo1j16.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150409_171657_zpsgyzfwrhs.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150409_172315_zpsvsauk21c.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 2:15pm
| Boy, that little one sure is cute! I see she even has the AC sweat pants on. Definately got her headed down the right road. Looks like I can already see "my tractor" on her face about this 620! |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 5:42pm
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That little shop manager is a little doll! LOL! She looks a little like my Grandaughter Emily. Dave, unfortunately, I dont' have a pic of what the OEM harness under the dash looks like. I have my own 620 wired, but its not even close to stock. Its all custom under the dash... ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 8:25am
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Steve I'm good with the underdash wiring, I'm just trying to figure out how to route wires from the frame rail up to the charging system/ignition/front clutch. did they just lay on the motor or was there something better than that. also I posted a question about the deck spindles in another topic but if somebody wants to answer it here that is fine. do the 2 clamshells split to take a part and replace the bearings or do they stay together. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 6:27pm
http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150411_171132_zpsez6l5quq.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> Spun the engine over before setting it in frame. Just used a 20 amp battery charger to juice it. Hooked up the white lead to the harness and the yellow through the 20 amp circuit breaker and then to the positive post on the battery. Hit the light switch and had juice so hit the key and even without the engine bolted down it grounded well enough to bump the.motor when I hit the key. Getting closer. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 6:28pm
| How does the front portion of the clutch attach to the engine |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 6:52pm
| looks real great you have done alot of work But put a oil preasure gauge on while the tin is off and check oil presure i did before i started mine and had no oil presure had to take it bake down found out one of the gears [oil pump gears ] was sheared in side the pump sure glad i didnt wait till the light was hooked up |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 6:56pm
| buy the way i put a tee in and put a 2 " guage in the dash above the amp meter sothe light is still hooked up allso |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2015 at 8:36pm
| could you post a picture of where you tied oil pressure gauge into |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 10:20am
| likie i say when learn how to a pic i think i will have a pic each day but right above the oil filter there is the sen der for the oil light remove that it is 1/8" npt put a bronze close nip. in it screw 1/8 square tee run end with branch straight up put sender back in the end of the run oil line can then still run up with the ingintion wires |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 10:27am
| just noticed in a pic on here it shows 90 fittting with a oil line on it that is where your sender would thread in remove that 90 for your tee |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2015 at 11:22am
| Turns out that line runs to a t with 2 plugs on top of the engine. I gt see if I have room for an oil temp gauge as well as pressure. Any idea how many psi these things should make? Also care sending units for the light still available |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2015 at 6:32pm
| Allis Chalmers 616 with cckb 19.5hp turning over: https://youtu.be/vqjPtATXcfM |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2015 at 6:33pm
| If somebody wants to embed that please |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2015 at 9:34am
| Could somebody walk me through how to wire the ignition.a hand drawn diagram would suffice |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 7:36pm
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Made some progress but ignore the mess Engine is coming back out when I get my rebuilt starter back. All that's left is to wire up the fuel pump and assemble the plug wires. http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150415_182827_zpsypo1ivbx.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 7:37pm
| If I'm not in the field I plan to start it tomorrow |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:48pm
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-6cWN52D2b8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:50pm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cWN52D2b8 governor is not hooked up and timing is not quite set but it runs. can somebody tell me how to embed |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:54pm
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cWN52D2b8" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cWN52D2b8 |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:55pm
| [TUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cWN52D2b8[/TUBE] |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 11:21am
| well I've got some good news, got the right brake to brake loose without take the axle assembly apart. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 12:09pm
| my pedals dont seem to move very far then just stop and the brakes dont work very good it dosnt seem like mine are moving inside WHAT DID YOU DO ? maybe it will work on mine |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 12 May 2015 at 8:27am
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Dave! That sucker runs man! Excellent! Congrat's are in order. Musta' made ya feel good to hear that thing come to life after all the hard work, aggravation, and hair pullin' uh? Love the headers. LOL! ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 12 May 2015 at 10:17am
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Hud my pedals moved but something internal was stuck so I just kept rocking the tractor with the hydro until it broke Thanks Steve now I just need hardware to connect the governor and throttle so if anybody has spare parts let me know. Need the tie downs for both choke and throttle the linkage frome throttle to governor and governor to carb |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2015 at 1:29pm
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My precious http://s161.photobucket.com/user/coggonobrien/media/616/20150608_182503_zps5toelptg.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Starter is back from rebuild time to yank the motor and finish it up |