HD11 won't move
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91992
Printed Date: 15 Nov 2024 at 6:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD11 won't move
Posted By: maccountry
Subject: HD11 won't move
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2014 at 2:25pm
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Got bit running finally but it won't move.I parked it there about 4 & 1/2 years ago.Blade won't move either.Only 4 gauges on it .All work .Amps show charging , oil pressure OK , fuel pressure seems OK , water temp OK .Let it warm up 15 minutes.put gear shift lever in lowest position.Pulled the clutch handle back --- nothing ! Pulled the blade lever back --- nothing ! Being an real "no nothing" person , I'm not sure where to check the respective fluid levels.There is an obvious large tank to which the blade lever is mounted on top .It has some sort of a screw cap on its top which will unscrew by hand and gets very loose but will not come off and I don't want to try forcing it.May be a vent of some sort .2 hydrolic lines ( metal about 3/4" ) come out of it through a valve body to the hydrolic rams that raise and lower the blade .Don't see any dip stick or other means of fluid level read .As to the clutch and the two steering clutchs --- all have easy ( maybe 10 pounds of pull force ) movement and seem to ( main clutch lever) seat in comfortably when pulled back all the way . Ideas are welcome for some one who knows nothing . Thanks , in advance, for your help. Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Replies:
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2014 at 5:35pm
| Make sure the high/low range shift is in gear Mac. There is a nuetral position in the middle which will give you no drive. you can use anything as a dipstick for hydraulic fluid |
Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2014 at 6:15pm
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What about the hydrolic fluid dip stick location ? Dont see where I would check it ?Should I force that screw cap off the tank where the blade lever is ? Mac
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2014 at 6:18pm
| On the front tank you have a plug with square head it is the dip stick and the oil master cluch tank dip stick is on right side |
Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 5:05am
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Mactractor --- Sir , Thank you for your quick reply . I will be on iy today . Hope thats all the problem actually is. Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 5:09am
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gemdozer --- Thank you for your quick reply . I will be working on it today . I am assuming that the "Front tank" you are refering to is the one in the cab on my right hand side with the blade movement lever on it ? Hope its as easy as low fluid . Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: Andrew_D
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 7:51am
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Here's a page from the parts manual for the Allis hydraulic system for the HD11.You can see which is the breather and which is the dipstick. This is the tank on your right-hand side. Also has the valve and lever mount as you can see. Of course, if yours doesn't have an AC hydraulic system, then all I have done is posted a weird picture to confuse you......  Andrew ------------- =================================================== HD11B (S/N: 3880) ~1957 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 8:57am
| Sorry to say I don't have a lot of experience on the 11 series, most of my mechanic time was on later FA units, some later HD6 and 6G(Allis engine) a customer of mine had and a lot of Cat and Deere. Basic mechanical is my specialty as I was a wrench for over 25 years starting in 1975, still I wish I had been a Allis full timer. Cats still suck as to working on as opposed to the Allis systems. I still have to come here for the nuances I missed during my days in the field. |
Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 2:46pm
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DMiller --- Sir , I greatly appreciate your responce to my previous question , in any event .It got me on the correct path .You were good enough to respond to this question for me as a courtesy and that also is appreciated as well. Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 2:51pm
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Andrew_D --- Sir , Thank you for the great photo ! Exactly what I have ! Question --- is it likely that the hydrolic system you have shown me here is also the control for the three (the drive and two steering ) clutchs as well ? Thank you , in advance , for your responce . Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: Andrew_D
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 3:55pm
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That hydraulic system controls only the blade. (Also controlled the rear ripper too if you have one.) As with many crawler tractor manufacturers of that era, the blade and control systems were a seperate item. The parts book I have lists the hydraulic and cable blades (11BD, 11GD, 11BDC, 11GDC) that Allis offered for the HD11. Everything from the push arms, C-frame, blades, front root ripper (brush/stone rake), hydraulic tank(front mount and side mount as shown above)/pump/valves/cylinders/lines/diverter valve for rear ripper, cable sheaves (Not the cable control unit though. CCU's would have been manufacturer dependent.) In searching for certain parts, I have found that some items also crossed with the HD16 and HD21. Not the blades, push arms or anything big like that. But filters, tanks, hydraulic pumps, valves, etc. I can email you (or anyone else!) the PDF parts book if you'd like. 54 pages, 12MB. Andrew ------------- =================================================== HD11B (S/N: 3880) ~1957 |
Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 7:11pm
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Andrew_D --- Sir , Thank you for your offer of the book . I have a book that I suspect came originally with the tractor .Mine is a very old model #2675 --- likely 1974 or earlier.The book I have is all inclusive thru model #12201 .The problems I have revolve around the fact that the last machine I worked on was a used 1953 ford with a "standard 3 speed on the column transmission". This is obviously a different world but I don't think beyond me.I'm a bit slow comming up to speed on it though.Likele age related --- 72 ?? Question for you if I might --- Arn't the clutch assemblys simply a dry asseblage of plates activated by a spring loaded throw out bearing and a pressure plate assembly with no hydrolic assist system ? I do see a oil system but it doesn't appear to be for any thing but lubrication .So if I'm getting no machine movement when it is in low range and in first gear either some thing serious is broken or the clutchs are so badly deteriated or oil soaked that they are doing nothing when engaged ? Am I on the correct track ? I really appreciate your assistance and don't mean to be a pain. If I am being let me know ? Thank you , again , in advance . Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 11:54pm
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Seems like there would be some effort for the machine to move even with bad clutches. I'm wondering if the shift lever is not actually going into gear? Good luck! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 8:39am
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He might have the range shift in nuetral...
and then again could be he is not pulling the hand clutch into gear?
hand clutch usually on left side should pull in with some effort and snap out its not like a car that has springs on pressure plate that holds it in... Its on a concaved washer if I remember right. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 12:52pm
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Good afternoon to each and every one on the site that responded to my query! Today was the best for me as to my efforts ( with every ones help ) to awaken my sleeping Beast !! Simply low hydrolic as to blade movement !! --- Just a new world to me guys !! I came to the conclusion that I had done every thing, suggested to me by you guys, correctly but to no avail . With both the transmission gear shift in neutral and the high / low range shifter in neutral I could work the main clutch handle and feel it out as to tension points and came to the conclusion that it was properly working. Did the same with both steering clutch handle's . The right felt fine but the left did not feel as though it was right . Got a friend to sit in the cab and work the handle back and forth while I put a 24" common pipe rench on the short piece of linkage that attached to the shaft going down to the final drive casing and applied matching but more direct pressure to that linkage with a sledge hammer to the wrench handle .It finally released some thing and the handle in the cab began to fool right . Put it in low range and first gear and activated the drive clutch and still nothing but a very slight movement on the left brake peddle but still no movement of the machine and stalled motor . Rapidly figured the left brake might be frozen . Put a chain on the top of the left track at about mid point -- tied it to trailor hitch on my truck -- restarted engine and with my friend in the cab working the main drive clutch handle from engaged to dis-engaged started jerking the dozer/left track with the truck . He herd a clank and the left brake apparrently un-stuck and done . Machine is alive again .Moved it about 3 feet with two pieces of 1 & 1/2" pipe in the sprockets two groves that had the slack --- the two pipes fell out -- all the slack now on the top -- all sprocket teeth in proper location . Hooked chane to idelier top spoke and on to truck -- pulled idler forward -- pulled the yoke out by hand --- soaking it in "Blaster and screw adjuster is gradually loosening . Should be back on machine , tracks adjusted , and ready to work by Saturday . "Mac McGrail" is a happy person to live with again !! My Girl friend saqid so . Again ----- I can't thank every body enough !! Mac mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 1:35pm
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It's always good to hear positive results on an old machine that's been sitting. Glad we could all help in a slight way. Congratulations to you for making it happen!
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 1:43pm
| Any pictures yet Mac? |
Posted By: Andrew_D
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 4:07pm
Just noticed this! Are you sure that the pre-12200 book you have isn't the tractor book? The blade info is in a seperate book - cable & hydraulic systems plus blades, push beams, etc. Anyway, if you've got it already, that's awesome! Andrew ------------- =================================================== HD11B (S/N: 3880) ~1957 |
maccountry wrote:Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 3:35pm
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Hello JohnCo , Thanks for the encouragement ! Still a long way to go . Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 4:04pm
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DMiller , Hello again . I'm pretty computer ignorant ! I think pictures are way , way past my ability . My Lady said she will take some and post them in a week or so . I would like to get it moved to where I can work on it with a lot more ease than it takes now .Its in the only position I could leave it in 4 & 1/2 years ago when it "went south" on me . I have gotten both Idler Yokes off of it now with a great deal of trouble . On the left side the spring seat that is/was mounted on the trac frame broke completely off on both its ends and flipped over ( 90 degrees ) , slipped down and lodged under the yoke adjustment screw . When it did that it jamed up under the screw to a point where the screw was pushed up just enough to be out of alignment and un-screwable. Thought about removing the master trac pin and the idler hold down equipment but the master pin has been welded in by some idiot years ago . Instead ( hoping I can get another one ) I burned the spring seat ( which was no longer under the equilizing spring any way --- that is another problem ) into 3 pieces and beat them out there by releasing the stress on the screw which I then unscrewed and removed the yoke to my shop. The other yoke ( right side ) --- while up off of one of its two seat pins in the front at least it wasn't damaged and came right off . Cleaning them up for re- install now. Main problem I see now is that there are 6 pieces of equilizer spring on the right side with the two bottom ones in the spring seat .On the left side there are 7 pieces of equilizer spring with the bottom one resting directly on the trac frame. It looks like some one stuck a piece of spring under the 6 original pieces of spring to equil the height of the spring seat on the other side and just left the broken spring seat under the screw and said the heck with it ! I may tack weld the extra piuece in place on to the trac fr4ame and drive it carefully up to my shop and then figure out what to do . Don't have a clue how I will manage to re set the springs correctly by my self . But thats for another day . Ideas appreciated ! Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: maccountry
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2014 at 4:12pm
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Andrew_D Hello again . You are correct --- it is the tractor book . how ever it has enough info in it for me to get the general "gist" of things. I'm trying to keep all my options open and not --- at this point --- spend a bunch on it until I figure out the spring problem I just related to DMiller here in the forum . That could be a bit more than I can handle . Don't know yet until I get it moved fr4om where it is about a half a mile to my shop where I might have a chance to do the work necessary . If you read my note to DMiller and have ideas I would appreciate hearing from any body about possible solutions . Mac McGrail mailto:maccountry22640@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow - maccountry22640@yahoo.com
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Posted By: xiaoyouyou1hao
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2014 at 5:04am
| On the front tank you http://www.fifa15coinsok.com/" rel="nofollow - Buy FIFA 15 Coins have a plug with square head it is the dip stick and the oil master cluch tank dip stick is on right side |