AC HD-10 W Restoration Help
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90825
Printed Date: 20 Jun 2024 at 6:51am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: AC HD-10 W Restoration Help
Posted By: Real_TL
Subject: AC HD-10 W Restoration Help
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2014 at 11:21pm
| Hey guys I'm new to the forum and I'm glad this is here for the help. I understand Most everything and how it is "suppose" to work but that's not the case here. The Crawler was my dads and it ran when it was parked but that was 30 years ago. He wants to scrap it and I said no I'm gonna restore it so If I don't fix it he gets his way. I pulled the dozer out 2 days ago and started to take stuff apart clean and look everything over. The engine is seized from sitting, I hooked 2 brand new battery's and wires to it and I get the hard click from the starter and the cooling fan does a very short twitch. Lifters do not move whatsoever. so I believe the crank if free and the pistons are seized from sitting. I took out all 4 injectors out and put a bit of diesel fuel in each cylinder to sit over night and I'm gonna try again tomorrow. I also drained all the oil and there was some water in there that had frozen and cracked my pan I'm going to weld that up tomorrow but at least there was still oil above the water. btw it has the Detroit 4-71 motor. My biggest problem that I need some help on would be that it has been out of gear for all that time and now none of them will engage. The Direct and Indirect lever works and also the rear clutch levers feel like they are working properly. The Gear selector and the master clutch will not engage in any position. I cant tell how I would get in there to free them up but I'm thinking its gonna be a pita from what I can see. I have the floor pan off now and the opening to the master clutch. I have also greased every fitting I could find, even the one by the master. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I can find hardly any info on these old dozers. Thank you for any help in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2014 at 11:23pm
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 12:06am
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Real TL, I like the looks of the early HD series, and yours has a near purfect grill from what I see.
You may want to take the starter off, so as to pry on the teeth to back it up and forward...Go to http://kingofobsolete.ca./" rel="nofollow - http://kingofobsolete.ca./ and look for the thread there about making a starter replacement that you bolt in, in place of the electric and then you use a big bar on that to start wiggling a stuck engine loose.
Here is the link... http://kingofobsolete.ca./KINGS_BAR_STARTER_WEBPAGE.html" rel="nofollow - http://kingofobsolete.ca./KING'S_BAR_STARTER_WEBPAGE.html
"Pouring some diesel in"...You know every enjector has to be reset for the engine to run right, right? but... while injectors are out, did you stick a wire down to see if any water was in the cylinders?...
Remember that the intake valves are the ports in the lower cylinder... maybe you should check out the blower to see if that is froze, rusted up or full of acorns or whatever... that has to spin freely.
Did it still have antifrizz in the radiator, and up to full mark?
Was the can on the exhaust without holes in it?
Take the airbox covers off and take a good look at the ports in the cylinders. You will get a better idea of what your in for maybe.
There are some very knowledgeable fellows on the board here so be patient, somebody will come along and have better info. In the meantime, just gotta keep asking questions and putting up pictures. LOL ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 12:08am
| haha yea, had no clue about the injectors having to be reset but I figured they probably were not in working order anymore. I looked in with a flash light and they were dry before i put some fuel in there. Then I could get a shine from the fluid sitting in there. Now that you say the blower my dad decided to mention somthing about a cracked lobe but he said it was running so who knows I'm kinda blind on this haha. So I have to check that out tomorrow too. Will that being froze up cause it not to turn over also? And the exhaust was modified at some point but it has no holes and still had a good flipper on the top that was closed. I'm not sure what you mean about the air box covers, that may have been modified also, Thanks for the response |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 12:14am
| That bar starter Is an awesome idea, I've never had to unseize a motor before but I bet that helps, Only problem is I'd need a junk starter haha |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 7:59am
| If you have a crack rotor in blower the motor should't turning |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 8:16am
| yea I don't know much about what is going on with blower but that's coming off today and I'm going to find out whats going on, I will replace it if I have too, I'm more concerned with the shifting problem right now because if I can't get it in any gear or fix that problem then this project is a wash. The motor is easy to access and parts are available for that. Thanks for the help guys, I'll post some pictures later. |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 9:46am
| just got the blower off and it turns over fine, so I found the motors culprit. :) |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 10:23am
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Airbox covers...
 Need a Roots? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DETROIT-4-71-SUPERCHARGER-/331225551011#ht_25wt_1153" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/DETROIT-4-71-SUPERCHARGER-/331225551011#ht_25wt_1153 ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 5:11pm
thanks for that ebay link jc, hopefully I can win the bidding in the end, this will give me some time to change fluids in the rear, and I still have to get the master clutch to break free, We have a lot more torn apart so we can clean and paint things, I have to get the fuel tank cleaned out and the pan fixed still so I have a lot to work on while I'm waiting. We got the shift linkage freed up today. Here are some pics, 
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Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2014 at 5:17pm
     
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 11:15pm
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Just purchased 3/4" X 36" hoses from Surplus Center... made in USA, and look good. Was cheaper to buy all four for the hyd. cylinders than to have two made up locally.
I know you haven't got your HD-10 W running yet... but just in case you start looking for a hose for your front hyd. pump pressure line, here are a couple 1" hoses...
1" X 24" 1 NPTM X 1 NPTM 2750 PSI HYD HOSE, 2 wire braid, 11,000 Burst
item number: 919-2224
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Hose-and-Hose-Assemblies/Hydraulic-Hose-Assemblies/1-X-24-1-NPTM-X-1-NPTM-2750-PSI-HYD-HOSE-919-2224.axd" rel="nofollow - http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Hose-and-Hose-Assemblies/Hydraulic-Hose-Assemblies/1-X-24-1-NPTM-X-1-NPTM-2750-PSI-HYD-HOSE-919-2224.axd 1" X 18" item number: 919-2218 price $20.95 ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2014 at 8:59am
| ohh awesome, thanks for the link, after she is all up and going again I'm gonna try and re run some new "gas" hydraulic lines a lot neater than they were before so that will be perfect to connect the ends. |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 7:01am
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I believe the steering clutches are dry on that machine. once you get it running don't be surprised if they are stuck. maybe pull that machine with another and operate the clutches and see if they are free. if they are wet clutches, should not be an issue. looks like a fun project. good luck. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:29pm
| I'm pretty sure all of the clutches are dry from what I have read. I know for sure the master is frozen engaged, I'm pretty sure it is the linkage so I am gonna try the lube and cleaning technique they have in the manual with the fuel and running the motor to see if that will break it free. I have pulled it with the excavator and tryed it in gear and everything was engaged but have not checked the rear steering clutches. Would they be stuck engaged? my handles move free but I know that doesn't say much it has been sitting a long time. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:50pm
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Todd, ask your dad how hard that clutch was when he last ran it...
It's an over center clutch and it will "SNAP" when newly adjusted. So if it were tight like that, and sitting a number of years, it might take a serious pull to get it to 'unsnap' LOL ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:51pm
Some painting of the parts, Rebuilt blower is ordered and on the way also.        
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:51pm
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in reference to the master clutch, not the steering clutches. if it is the linkage, then what good is "washing" the clutch going to do? if you have the cover off, see if the fork is moving the release bearing. you can also try adjusting the clutch out by turning the adjuster plate counter clockwise. grease all the zerks inside that housing, verify that the cams arnt frozen and that the clutch releases over center. that doesnt mean it wont be stuck, but will verify the linkage is functioning. we used to have a 10W, been in that housing many times, had to rebuild the fork and have the bearing housing built up and machined as the release bearing housing tabs were worn half through. once you have the master clutch working, you can load the dozer by pulling something or using a blade if you have it. once the load is applied then use the steering clutches to see if they function properly and release. DONT JERK, you are asking for trouble anytime you jerk the machine or pull it around trying to break things free. the final pinions will break teeth, trust me,
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:53pm
| haha I believe it its gonna be a pita to get it free, He says he don't remember the last time he ran it was before I was born literally lol |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2014 at 9:57pm
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I have the baker blade for it, I'm almost for sure its the cams that are froze. I wasent sure exctally how the clutch worked in there and how to adjust it, I have greased the fitting inside the housing. Is that something I can heat or should I tear it all apart? Its like impossible to work in there with all the levers and crap in the way, Is there a way to break it free without tearing too far into it? |
Posted By: John NWMo
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2014 at 10:46am
| Hi, Have a Factory shop manual that covers HD series tractors, Detroit engines, Baker dozers & pumps. If you dont have access to one it might be a big help to you. Got it from an old navy seabee guy. Need $35.00 plus shipping. Will have it at the Lathrop,Mo Allis Show.Do you know if any one from your area will be coming to it? John |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2014 at 5:08pm
| Do you have a paypal account that I could send you the money through? My email is HiltonGhost@yahoo.com Shoot me an email and we can probably work something out on the manual. |
Posted By: ac_sd
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2014 at 9:02pm
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I had a Cat D73T that had a master clutch that would not release from sitting for an extended period with it engaged. Both the D7 and Your HD-10 have dry master clutches and steering clutches, I got My D7 to release by spraying "Brake Cleaner" on it over several days and then gently pushing against an immobile object (boulder in my case). Quite a project you've got, good luck with it !!! |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 9:00pm
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I think my master is stuck in the open position so it may break free easy not sure till I try it, My rear steering clutches look like they are working good and free and also the brakes look like they will be working properly, I opened up the access panels and had a look today. Got it moved down by the barn where I have the painting set up and bought a good pressure washer to do the chassis and everything I cant tear down. Put the rocker mounts back on and took the grill off to take inside and paint also. We fixed the right track and put in the new master pin that dad had machined 30 yrs ago lol. tightened the track up so it should be good to go. Thanks everyone for your helpful post. Oh and I forgot to mention, Don't ever stand near a chain under stress, Had one come apart and go through my moms Cadillac rear window (25ft away) moving it up with the excavator. Just proof that it does happen and they do fly. I can never stress enough how dangerous they can be.
   
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 9:44pm
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Todd, Learned years ago to throw a coat, shirt or something on top of the chain in the middle... You won't believe how that will reduce and dampen the effects from a recoiling chain...
Sure looks like your making progress on the old beast. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: ac_sd
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 12:02pm
| Hi again, I usually tow these larger machines with a able choker which I feel safer using than a chain. But you bring up a really good point. I've also found that you can check whether steering clutches are working correctly by tying one lever at a time in the dis-engaged position and seeing if the machine will allow a track to slow or stop when you make it turn. Seems to be a good indicator. Can't do that with boosted steering though, obviously. You'll have a good historical record of your restoration project with your pictures. Thanks for sharing them with us. Have fun!! |
Posted By: allisguy.11
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 8:11pm
| Todd, HOw close are you to Rochester? We are an allis (agco) dealer in perry and grandpa has a lot of bulldozer knowledge. Let us know if you need any parts. Get a video of that bad girl for her first start up!! |
Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 9:51pm
Primer Coat sprayed today, Tyna is down under getting paint in her hair LOL, actually tynas mom lives in perry ny so we go out there quite often. I am looking for a few things, I'm looking for an original hood and intake someone has rigged up one that I don't like too much and the hood is trashed with holes now, E mail me and we can get in touch sometime Hiltonghost@yahoo.com, Here are some pics from today.                             
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Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 9:07pm
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Didn't do much on it today, Mainly got the gauge cluster off to clean up and ordered all new gauges for it so hopefully I will be able to get her fired up this weekend to see if she will run. That's if the blower gets delivered by then. I think tomorrow were gonna pull it out and scrape the bad spots we see on the primer coat then re coat and hit the missed spots from the track position. I mainly wanted the bare metal spots primed so the rust didn't get worse. We still have to make a seat for it. I've saved some decent couch cushions I can use the foam out of and might go with boat seat fabric for that. I will probably end up doing that last tho.
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Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 8:38pm
| Well just an update, We got her back together, gauges installed, New blower on and she moves on the rear steering clutches but I still need to get that master clutch free, Been spraying the cams and parts with a lot of wd40 hoping it will eventually come loose, should I heat it up and spray it? It is stuck locked in the open position i believe. I will post some more pics and a vid tomorrow night if all goes well. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 10:32pm
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inside the release bearing housing is a bushing that could be froze to the shaft. it is inside the three arm yoke that pushes on the cams to make them tighten onto the driven disk. the back of the yoke rides in the bearing and it rotates with the flywheel. the shaft must be free inside of it to function ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 5:20am
WD40 is a lousy choice as a penetrating oil, I have no loyalty to any one product, but Kroil is 10 times better than WD40. Some others include nutts off, PB Blaster, acetone/ATF mix. Any will out-do WD40!
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Real_TL wrote:Posted By: Real_TL
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 4:40pm
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haha I agree but that's all I had here at the time, I go through a ton of pb blaster on my projects, I did get it freed up and its working, but now it looks like I need a radiator for it because it has sprung a few holes and looks like it has been fixed before where the fan had hit it, so now its time to search for that.
[TUBE]Allis Chalmers HD-10 w First run in over 30 yrs[/TUBE] [TUBE]Allis Chalmers HD-10 w First run in over 30 yrs 2[/TUBE] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSmGUPLBUpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMJ2ISMtTc
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 11:59pm
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Here , I will try to turn them into live links...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSmGUPLBUpk" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSmGUPLBUpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMJ2ISMtTc" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMJ2ISMtTc
Congradulations on getting her going again...Liked your vids... Liked all the pics you posted too. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |