D14 D15 New USA made What would you Pay for them?
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Topic: D14 D15 New USA made What would you Pay for them?
Posted By: David(Stockbridge)MI
Subject: D14 D15 New USA made What would you Pay for them?
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 7:51am
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Just got a quote back form my vendor here in Michigan to make fenders for D14 / D15 just like OEM. What would you pay for good quility USA made fenders? ------------- All "NEW" Web Site http://www.djstractorparts.com 2035,A,U,UC,WF unstyled,WF styled,WC High Crop (cane),RC,B,IB,C,CA,WD,WD45,G,D10,D12,D14,D15,D15 II,D17,D19,WC styled,WC unstyled H3 crawler |
Replies:
Posted By: Austin(WI)
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 9:36am
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$150....but I am cheap. lol ------------- "Better By Design" |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 10:01am
| I would think $3 a lb. should get you a good fender. Forming dies are high. Stamping machines are cheap. |
Posted By: FredW
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 3:38pm
| I think they would be expensive. Wouldnt be so bad if you could do both sides with the same set of dies, then you need the struts also. Fred |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 4:13pm
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Whenever you're reproducing an item, especially outta' steel, the dies are the biggest hit in the wallet, especially if there's more than one that needs to designed & used to make that particular item. And then depending on how many items are made with those particular dies, they eventually get worn, and they have to be "rebuilt" again to keep the quality in the item. When making fenders (as the example here) you want a nice clean, crisp line or bead everytime to keep the quality control on target and have the product dead to nuts. Same for any other die designed to use on that particular fender such has stamping the holes. Everything needs to be precise. One thing off, its all off, and then the fender doesn't fit correctly anymore. Its a gamble. If you have enough demand for that particular item where it would pay for the cost of the whole shootin' match, you'll be okay. But that's the ticket, you need the demand. I've had parts reproduced in the past. Some I faired out okay for my investment, some not so good. Some I broke even on. I never lost my shirt. I was lucky I guess in my attempts.... Steve@B&B |
Posted By: ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 4:15pm
| If they're good quality fenders and not junk, I would say they are worth 400. Some people might see that as high but I think a good set of WD/WD45 fenders are close to 300 and with the D14/D15 fenders, there aren't as many to make and sell to get your die manufacturing costs back so I would think that 400 is right. Well, what are they going to sell for? |
Posted By: BurtIA
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 4:36pm
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The junk repro 45 fenders are $400/set so if these are nice and correct they're worth more than $400/set. If you've spent any time looking for non rusty straight 14/15 fenders you know there are not many out there. So, I'd say they're worth at least $300 each. My opinion.
Burt
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Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 4:52pm
| I'm wwith the folks who say $400. I can get a set of fenders for my carhauler fabbed and installed for under $400. When I was looking for a set of fenders for my D12, was told by a person they had a pair that needed some work to fix up the dings, cracks, and rust pits; he wanted $400 for the pair. I passed. Guess I will have the person who fabs the carhauler fenders to faab me up a pair that look like the 620/720 fenders for my D12. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 5:39pm
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Anyone ever thought about making them out of fibreglas, or kevlar or ??? I know the 'correct cops' would cringe but the moulds would be a LOT cheaper than the dies and press to punch the steel ones out.
Heck if you sprayed in some iron filings, they'ld hold magnets !
Just wondering.
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: David(Stockbridge)MI
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 6:15pm
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Dies are expensive, about $18,000 for Left, $!8, 000 for right and $7,000 for stiffner plus welding of braces. Worked with this vendor when I work in the auto industry and spent a lot of money using their check book. First 50 of each would be almost $600.00 per fender, based on cost of die and material, after that they would be less, and would sell for around $400.00 to $425.00 each. ------------- All "NEW" Web Site http://www.djstractorparts.com 2035,A,U,UC,WF unstyled,WF styled,WC High Crop (cane),RC,B,IB,C,CA,WD,WD45,G,D10,D12,D14,D15,D15 II,D17,D19,WC styled,WC unstyled H3 crawler |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 6:19pm
| Put me down fo #130 and 131 , Should be down to where I could pay for them ,by then. |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 8:05pm
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Question for David? What kind of service life would the dies have? I have been around alot of plastic molds but never steel work. This whole process interests me but I have no knowledge of it. |
Posted By: David(Stockbridge)MI
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 5:15am
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I would think they would be good for 2-3,000 pieces before they need to be reworked. ------------- All "NEW" Web Site http://www.djstractorparts.com 2035,A,U,UC,WF unstyled,WF styled,WC High Crop (cane),RC,B,IB,C,CA,WD,WD45,G,D10,D12,D14,D15,D15 II,D17,D19,WC styled,WC unstyled H3 crawler |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 5:57am
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Yep it aint cheap getting things made, especially in the USA. May people want made in the USA, but want made in China prices. I am having the grain elevator cups for the all-crop made just like the orginals. Metal stamping. Die for that little thing will run me over $2000.00, and that is considered reasonable. Got to sell a lot of cups to make that up.
Looking at making new draper drive rollers. Made in USA. My lowest cost per roller right now is over $300.00
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Posted By: Don Buck
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 7:16am
| Origional are hard to find so new reproductions would be worth $150 that would be my guess. |
Posted By: RichinWis
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 8:20am
| David, One thing to consider is competition in the industry if you are really serious about this. If you put it out for bids like our shop does, the die can be had for alot less. I am a mold maker, and we can get things done for alot less sometimes just because they need the work. Of course you have to specify certain requirements. I know you don't want to hear this but our company makes molds in China also, but made with certain guidelines and then the Mold or Die then being shipped to the USA to acually make the parts, for a little quality control can save some. |
Posted By: David(Stockbridge)MI
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 9:17am
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Rich,some of the suppliers like Steiners had some molds made in ? china,india, not sure but over seas and made D19 fenders. It' that junk in junk out thing. Customers that bought them sent a lot of them back or had to do a lot of work to make them fit and look halfway good. That's why I brought up the question what woud someone pay for a good set of fenders that would be as close to OEM quility. ------------- All "NEW" Web Site http://www.djstractorparts.com 2035,A,U,UC,WF unstyled,WF styled,WC High Crop (cane),RC,B,IB,C,CA,WD,WD45,G,D10,D12,D14,D15,D15 II,D17,D19,WC styled,WC unstyled H3 crawler |
Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 10:49am
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I was talking to steiner one day a few years back, and he said they were getting D17 fenders made in Hungary or Romania. Can't remember which, but it was over in that neck of the woods. Those are the ones he sells now, and most posts I have seen describe them as junk.
I would think if you could find someone that could make them like they made them originally, you could get 500 for a pair. They would have to be the same thickness of steel and curved and beaded the same.
To me that seems to be one of the biggest problems as far as repo's go. They always use cheaper, thinner metal to make the parts. ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 12:24pm
BTW just found out the protoype samples of the cups are on their way --Yippee!
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TomYaz wrote:Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 4:43pm
| During WWII there were some quick and dirty forming methods used. I worked at Cincinnati Shaper (long after) and they had an explosive forming machine that used a single side die and a quick electrical explosion in water to make flash steam pressure somehow. I also heard that other water pressure methods were used to avoid the need for precision dies. Probably mostly for aluminum aircraft parts. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 5:43pm
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There's no such thing as inexpensive quality when making a product as I mentioned in my above post. Dave, if you do go for it, I wish you luck and hope it works out for you as well as for the AC folks. Its fellow's like you that take a chance to keep our hobby going, and with a quality part. I try to do the same thing with anything that I do in my business whether its a wiring system or one of my rebuilds. There's just to much crap out there from foreign lands, that doesn't fit whether its for antique cars, trucks, or tractors. I'm one that doesn't mind paying extra for something as long as I know its a quality product, and its gonna either fit or work or both! Good Luck my friend! If I had a D14/15 that needed fenders, I'd be one of your customers on your list!! Steve@B&B |