plug wires for electronic ign.
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8937
Printed Date: 15 Nov 2024 at 3:15pm
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Topic: plug wires for electronic ign.
Posted By: Bill_MN
Subject: plug wires for electronic ign.
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 9:32pm
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I been running solid core plug wires that I bought new a couple years ago and the distributor's been converted to electronic ignition, but I have seen a few places suggest that solid core should not be used with electronic, need to use carbon or spiral core wire. the thing is still popping a bit but it was before the conversion. I'm wonderin if I should be running the newer spiral core wires? ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Replies:
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 10:27pm
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Bill, You can run either type of spark plug wire with a Distributor. You don't want to run a carbon core wire with a Mag. My B has carbon core wires on it with E.I. and my IB has solid core wires with the E.I. No change at all in the running. A sticky valve or tight valve could make the engine pop a little..... HTH Steve@B&B |
Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 10:41pm
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sounds good. I am running a distributor, interestingly it used to be a magneto but my grandpa sold it to a guy to use on an airplane years ago. has a D17 distributor and governor on it now. ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 7:36am
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Is your distributor shaft tight? A loose distributor shaft can make it pop or miss a little too.
------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 8:02am
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With a electronic ignition they has been horsepower found by using the helicoil or spiral wound wires over solid core wires on the dyno. THE EMI that is produced from solid wire that affects the solid state components in the radios can affect the the electronic ignition also to the point of induced cross firing. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 8:25am
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that sounds right the main concern with solid core seems to be the (lack of) EMI suppression. it also sounds like solid core can't handle the hotter, more concentrated spark that an E.I. puts out, would make sense to have some power gain there with a spiral core. i think I might try it and see how it goes, plug wires aren't that big an investment. Brian, I had the distributor rebuilt when it was converted to electronic so it's nice and tight now. ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 8:42am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Bill_MN wrote:Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 10:45am
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well, as much as I can I'm not an expert at these things, but I knew I would get some educated opinions here thanks all for the help ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 12:25pm
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I'd be real wary of any electronic ignition that has 'problems' with the EMI the system generates.If true, it means the design or manufature of it is wrong. I've got 12 years of electronic design in optical emission spectrometry for steel mills.I could always measure down to .001 volt with the Zinc stand running.Think of the biggest,bad poor word choice ignition coil on steroids,akin to a huge but lethal Tesla coil system,30,000 volts,several AMPS.Now adays I design itty bitty microcomputer circuits for 'fun', there ain't no profit in it, believe me,but keeps the brain active in the cold weather!
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 1:39pm
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Well if thats the case you need to start producing electronic ignitions . for msd , mallory crane etc. straight from the installation manual is where my knowledge came from . I didnt look there until I was pulling my hair out from a ignition system that some times would work prestine and other times cross fire . so after absorbing some reading materal from the manufacturers I have a prestine ignition system with exception of a small distributor cap but thats in the process of resolve also. MSD 50,000 VOLT COIL 550 VOLT PRIMARY FROM THE BOX WITH 14.6 VOLTS BATTERY ,160 MJOULES 6AMPS AT 6000 RPM 12 AMPS AT 12000 WERE IT COUNTS http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Ignitions/7222_instructions.pdf - http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Ignitions/7222_instructions.pdf CHECK OUT PAGE 2 IN UNDER SPARK PLUGS AND WIRES. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 2:13pm
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On a tractor, I'm no fan of carbon wires. I bought a used tractor and it ran badly, when I checked closer the coil to distributor wire would open up when bent and it would bend with vibration. Made the tractor jerk in road gear. (Another color). Carbon wires are great for reducing ignition noise in radios or for planter monitors. Carbon plugs will do the same a bit more reliably, in my opinion. Carbon wires and carbon plugs are too much carbon on a conventional system and I think wasters of the high energy you bought the high power electronic ignition to achieve. Because the resistors limit the current at the plugs. On top of that, if you open up the plug gap to make use of the high energy ignitor, then you need wires with better insulation to keep the fire IN the wire and not jumping to ground and to other wires. Those wires with more insulation are hard to plug into the standard distributor cap, and for that matter hard for the standard rotor to hold from arcing through to the shaft. I think the high voltage wires are only avaialable with spiral or carbon cores, either of which reduces the energy at the plugs. With the high energy ignition systems you want to be careful about plug wires running next to each other, they can cause loss of energy to the plug you want fired and firing of plugs you didn't want fired at that instant, e.g. cross firing which sometimes makes an engine sound more than a little rough. I'm not a fan of electronic ignition systems on tractors because while there are only three parts in the old scheme there are many more in the electronic module and reliability can be less the more the parts. And I can replace points and condenser about 20 times for the price on one electronic ignition module. And in the last 20 years, I've replaced more plugs that points on my two tractors farming a patch of ground. Gerald J. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 3:18pm
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re. mlpankey's remarks..
I read the MSD info you included.It's rather sad that the manufacturer puts out a disclaimer basically saying 'our product produces EMI(elctrical noise) and we can't figure out how to shield our own product from the EMI it generates. As an avionics tech, I was well aware of the consequences of bad grounds,open shields,loose screws,etc.
As for designing and marketing an EMI quiet system, the money is just not there,not in this economy.I rather doubt I'd get orders for my unit if it had a $1,000 price tag on it,but it'd be dead quiet.Then again, tube amplifiers are making a comeback!
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 7:14pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 9:09pm
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They're making darn good profit then.Considering the 'brains' inside the box is less than $5, mind you they had hire a tech for a month or two ,to cut the code(very simple to do nowadays,tons of info on the web!),they also have 'variations on a theme',which reduces inventory and manuacturing costs(been there-done that).The rest of the guts can't amount to over $100 per unit in reasonable quantities and of course once you corner the market/make a name for yourself it's very hard for new kid on the block to compete.
Like the thread about D14/15 fenders,it's the upfront costs,prototyping,waiting for that big order to come in , dwindling market share that kills most small home grown businesses. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 6:25am
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you would have to give one or two away . then when the two you gave away spent alot of time in the winners circle the market would be there. racing is follow the leader in more ways than just around the track. more a monkey see monkey do. sometimes with a little devation of inovation. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |