head gasket
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88116
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Topic: head gasket
Posted By: 200 allis
Subject: head gasket
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 7:49pm
| Is there after market head gasket that is better then stock. Was just wondering before I put motor back together. Pump has 390 head 3000 rpm and a holset hx35. 301motor o |
Replies:
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 8:35pm
|
If there is a better stock gasket I wouldn't know what brand it would be. The ultimate fix is to use wire rings from DQM or whatever it's called now. .105" diameter wire and if you are using stock sleeves go with a 4.650" O.D. on the rings. To do this the flange on the sleeve much be faced of about .033" for proper fit. In conjunction with these rings you can use the stock gasket with the OEM fire rings removed or use a copper gasket which is reusable many times over. Another option may be to just use a copper gasket with the correct bore size. It may squeak a little compression when cold but it won't blow out. You will have to have adequate sleeve stand out for this to work. Call Robert Alves. He makes a nice copper gasket at a reasonable price. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 9:05pm
| Do u think the stock gasket will be fine. |
Posted By: rowcropmafia
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 9:09pm
| I have a copper 301 gasket sitting around. Dont know much about it. If you're interested |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 9:36pm
| Well my crystal ball is broke down today. I would guess you can use it for a while but it will eventually leave go. What are you using now and is it blown out or are you having good luck with it? If it's working stay the course. If it ain't working doing the same thing again will most likely end up with the same results. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 9:59pm
| I don't have it together waiting for rods to come back from heat treating. I was wondering whether the stock head gasket would work with hx 35. Just trying to eliminate any problems |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2014 at 10:18pm
|
If you don't have the engine together I would machine the sleeves and use the wire rings and a copper gasket. This combo will put up with a lot of horsepower. The initial price of the gasket will be higher than a paper gasket, but if you re use the gasket twice you will more than recover the cost. You should get 6 - 8 uses or more from the gasket. The wire rings are cheap at about $85.00 for a minimum order of a qty. of 18. If you do this and do it correctly, you will not have head gasket issues and in the long run it will be cheaper. You could have the copper gasket and the wire rings within the next couple of weeks I would guess. If you need dimensions of the gasket, sleeve flange, or wire rings let me know. You are thinking correctly by doing it right the first time and avoiding problems. Have you tried the HX35 yet and if so, how does it work? |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2014 at 6:39am
| Where would I go about ordering wire rings and gasket. This stuff is new to me just trying to eliminate problems. If u have all that info. I would appreciate it. I just picked up the turbo haven't used it just waiting for rods. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2014 at 8:06am
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The place that makes the seal rings is Seal-Tec 630-692-0633. They are in Oswego IL. You have to tell them what you want made, they don't have application info. If you prefer, I can buy them, and sell you the 6 you need. The price has gone up some, and I try to keep the ones for a 426 that are drop on, as well as machined sleeve size. If you have the right info, you can have a size made that won't require machining the sleeve, but aren't as tough as the thicker ones requiring sleeve removal and machining. The level you're looking at, I would feel comfortable with the drop on. PM me for more details. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Ronnie
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 11:41am
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Im runing a 301 with an hx35 and it does farly well How much boost were u making befor u blow the head gasket |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 7:23pm
| I had just picked up a hx 35 was running stock turbo til I bent a rod |
Posted By: Ronnie
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 9:19pm
| How much boost were u runing with stock turbo befor it bent the rod |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 11:40pm
| Don't forget too much pump timing on a 301 will kill stock rods and head gaskets too. There is a point with pump timing where no power is gained. Retard two degrees from that point. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 5:31am
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When pump was build they had said to put it at 35 degrees an advanced was locked.
Will it hurt anything to run less timing.
|
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 5:54am
| Timing is one of those things, that if a little is better, a lot more isn't better. 32 to 34 degrees on a 301 is usually best. |
Posted By: Ronnie
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:30am
| How much boost will kill a stock head gasket with out head studs |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 11:20am
| 160 psi. |
Posted By: Ronnie
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 6:42pm
| That's a lot I was told 40 pounds was pushing it |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 6:52pm
| You asked about head bolt STUDS. I know of many diesel 301's that run 100 to 110 lbs all the time with regular A-C head bolts. I know of one that used to run 140 psi boost with three turbo's that had A-C head bolts. Whatever you're thinking, studs won't fix a head gasket problem on an A-C. |
Posted By: Ronnie
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 7:13pm
| g I don't have a head gasket problem I just wanted to see how far I could push the stock head gasket before it blows and I was just saying with out studs |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 7:46pm
| 40 psi with or without studs is pretty close. |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 7:51pm
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Head studs on a 301 are not necessary and would be a waste of time and money. I realize you are trying to avoid problems down the road which is good. With that said, if the engine is already assembled I would run what you have until it blows. When it does, fix it. Blowing a head gasket won't hurt the engine any. A 301 with stock conn rods just might bend a rod before it blows a head gasket. Ain't that right Robert C!! |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 8:20pm
| Is 7th gear possible for me to run at 8500lb class |
Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:02pm
| Skip that HX35 put on an h1e holset and kick some, h1e open rpm 22 exhaust housing,Vogel cam ,water and intercooler will get you 500 horses at 60 lbs of boost. One nasty little turbo 2.37x2.67 I think. |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:12pm
| You are correct for open RPM 301. He is limited to 3,000 RPM with no cooler and a small output injection pump. The HX40 is the newer version of the H1e and would be better yet for open RPM. |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:21pm
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My mistake. His is running open RPM I think with a cast flywheel and P.D. clutch. He should be running no more than 3,000 unless those are changed. Point is, I think a 301 with a 250 cc pump @ 3K RPM won't spin an H1E / HX40 where a H1C / HX35 might work better. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:22pm
| The reason I'm doing more to my tractor is to beat my buddies oliver super 99 with a 6-71 detroit. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:25pm
| I have a steel flywheel and double disc clutch coming |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:39pm
|
So can you run open RPM? Good to hear about the flywheel and clutch. Have you done any port work to your cylinder head? Also, can you run an intercooler? Lastly, what exhaust housing does your HX35 have on it? As far as 7th gear @ 8500 lbs. you won't do it without a DB .450 pump. It sounds like you may have a flywheel clutch that will do the job (if it is a multi disk), but the PD clutch will have to be removed. It will slip if you ever get enough power to run 7th gear weighing that much. D19 low side PD gears will slow 7th gear down by about 8%. Still will need a bigger injection pump than your .390. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:54pm
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Are club really don't have a rpm rule. Just smoothed ports off and head was refreshed up I could run a intercooler 12cm exhaust house.
|
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 9:55pm
| Feel safe at 3000 rpm without doing more balancing |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 10:25pm
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Balancing engine parts is always a good thing. Do you absolutely need to have everything balanced to run 3,000 RPM or even open RPM - no. The 12cm housing and head work will help you. If it's a gated housing, tie the gate shut. Not that you would have to do it, but an intercooler will increase HP and FT Lbs. as much as any one piece you can put on it especially if you run ice water through it. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 10:28pm
| Never seen a Super 99 with a 6-71 Detroit.....they came with a 4-53 originally. |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2014 at 11:46pm
| The 99 , super99, and 990 all ran 3-71 Detroit's, 1900 and 1950 ran 4-53's, none ever came with a 6-71! Thats a lot of motor if they are tuned well with a good windmill on top! |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 5:37am
| Yeah super 99 has v6-71 they love Detroit's his father runs a john 5010 with v12 in it. I use to run their 1950 with a 6 -71. Also have another 5020 with 8-71. Youtube under burlington county tractor pulls by duck commander. |
Posted By: Bob C IL
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 11:30am
 MINE AT 60 PSI
|
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 1:01pm
| Bob what turbo u running |
Posted By: Bob C IL
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 1:26pm
| At that time a hx50 now a s300 |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 1:57pm
| I'm going to run hx35 u made me nervous with pic |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 10:18pm
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If your connecting rods are properly hardened you will not have any issues no matter what turbo you choose or what the boost is. Be sure to use new rod bolts when you assemble things. If you run the HX35 with the 12cm exhaust housing and the gate tied shut you will see 45 - 55 lbs. of boost. That should be just fine with your hardened rods. Bob, you had the HX35 on yours when the connecting rod failed if I remember correctly. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2014 at 5:25am
| Max simpson is heat treating the rods for me. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2014 at 5:30am
| I know u had mentioned d19 pd gear is that a big job to change. I would like to be around 10 mph if possible. |
Posted By: 200 allis
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2014 at 5:33am
| Would the intercooler of a 7020 fit my 200 |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2014 at 9:20am
| Yes, use a gutted 7020 manifold, if you are allowed to run a intercooler, easy way is to make an adapter and use a 426 cooler and pump ice water through it. |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2014 at 5:29pm
|
Max Simpson is the only guy we have had heat treat our rods. Zero issues with his work. Good choice there. Changing the low side gears will require removing the clutch shaft and gears from the torque housing. Not a 15 minute job but better than installing a new 3rd gear in the transmission. By my math if you would install a D19 low range set up, your 7th gear would be 10.25 MPH @ 2200 RPM with 18.4 X 38 tires - 13.97 MPH @ 3,000 RPM. Something else to consider would be installing D19 Final drive gears which are 8.5 - 9% faster than 190 - 200 finals. I'm not sure if you can do this with a 200 rear or not. Can be done with an early 190. That would make your 6th gear about 7.8 MPH @ 2200 and 10.63 MPH @ 3000.It has to be parts from a later D19 - not sure of the serial number break. The splines on the bull pinion shaft have to be correct to fit the differential gears. I agree with Larry, if you can find a 426 intercooler make an adapter plate between the head and the 426 cooler and bolt it on. Manufacture something on each end of the core to enable yourself to pump ice water through it. 40 GPM pump or bigger pump. 1 inch fittings and hose. You can do the same thing with a 7020 intercooler but the surface area of the 426 intercooler core is much larger thus it will cool the air better. Another option would be to buy a 1000 HP air to water intercooler from Precision (or anyone with a bar and plate type core) This will bring your charged air temps below the ambient air temp. Same water pump and hoses. Better than the 426 cooler by quite a ways. See link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-1000hp-1000-hp-Water-to-Air-Intercooler-NEW-Supra-2JZ-Turbo-RWD-/370734291779 |
Posted By: Jerald/KS
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 8:42am
| If done to the right hardness, and Max does them right, the stock Allis "Japan" marked rod will give no problem as long as good bolts are installed. We have ran as high as 200 lbs of manifold pressure on our 180 light supers. We have run 3 turbo's and 3 pressure stages consisting of 3x3.4 on manifold with 3.4x3.75 in middle and a 3.9x4.25 on top with a lot of fuel on a 340 cu in setup. We have turned 6000 rpm with Indy Cyl head. Have never bent a rod. Did explode and split a block once, but an external tie bolt system we fabricated has eliminated that problem. Too much rpm will constantly kill the center main bearing, so counter balancing the crank is a good idea. Using Darton sleeves and Ross pistons allow us to run 1400 to 1500 degrees of exhaust temp with no problems. Seal tec wire rings and a copper head gasket are a must for our application but we did run a stock gasket with wire rings when we ran 2 chargers and kept boost at 140 or under. We feel we have pushed the 301 as far as possible. Ran 25 hooks last season and only problem we saw when disassembling engine this winter is the hammering out of pin bushings. Also a tip to make rod bearings take the abuse is to fully groove the main bearing bottom halves so the rods oil a full 360 degrees. And another tip is to get rid of the water. Run a dry engine as it eliminates a nuisance. Hope this helps answer some questions. Happy pulling Allis Guys! |
Posted By: Jerald/KS
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 8:46am
| Here is our current tractor Smokin Assets uploads/1614/smokin_assets_lockwood.jpg" rel="nofollow - smokin_assets_lockwood.jpg |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2014 at 11:51am
| Good to see u on here Jerald, you deffinetly kno your stuff! |
Posted By: rlknapp263
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 12:49pm
| What if I am replacing a bad head gasket on a stock unit, do I or should I use a copper? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 4:52pm
| Stock engine ?? farm application?? use an OEM type gasket. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 8:52pm
|
an easiest way to adapt the 426 intercooler to the 301 is to use the 301 manifold- and a 426 off a 7040 for example and saw openings where needed and weld the two together flat sides facing outward. the 426 bolts to the intercooler and of course the stock 301 to the head. Otherwise one needs a thick plate, precision drilled holes, counter sunk bores and then drilled and tapped holes. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 8:59pm
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I also remember seeing 2 intercoolers bolted together with a pipe in and pipe out direct into intake manifold on a 220 many years ago. Also remember seeing one turned cross ways behind the block. Always loved the innovation of gearhead pullers. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |