Allis B ?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8768
Printed Date: 19 Jan 2025 at 3:57pm
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Topic: Allis B ?
Posted By: 51WD(WI)
Subject: Allis B ?
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 12:28pm
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I have a friend that has a Allis B he would like to sell with attachments, I need to know where the serial # would be stamped on the tractor to identify the year and get some friendly advice on what it's value would be. I am including pics. Any advise is welcome.
Thank
Dean        ------------- 51 WD serial# 95746 and 80949 58 D17 W/loader #10742 |
Replies:
Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 12:38pm
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First off, what you have there is either a C, or a mix of a B and C. Most deffinately a C rear half of the tractor, and from the pic of the serial number by the shift lever, it is a C. The serial number starts with a C (I can't read the rest, do you know what it says?) Also, the C's had a wider rear end than the B's, which you can tell from the space from the wheels to the fenders, as well as the different shaped drawbar. Don't feel bad, I bought a C this past fall that was advertised as a B as well. What kind of front end does it have? If its a narrow, its a C front. If its a Wishbone, its a B front (and you have a mix of a tractor). If its a Square tube adjustable front, it could be either a B or a C front until closely looked at. **Edit** Ok, looking at the pics some more, I see the rear of the wishbone of the front end, so it must be a wide front of some type. But the fenders are throwing me off. C fenders should have two vertical ribs in them, not smooth like these, which suggest they are from a B? I also see all the parts (I believe) for a one bottom attached plow. (although the mounting bracket is slighty different than the one on my C.) And you also have a hodge podge of a field cultivator too. As for price, more info would be good (and a pic of the front of tractor). Looks like new rear tires? Are the rims all good? Does the tractor run? Good? Stay in all gears? Looks fairly complete, has a mag, and some kind of lights (original ones?) At this point, I'd say start in the 800-1000$ ballpark, and go up and down depending on more info. It's so hard to put a price on these kind of situations though until you know more info. And keep in mind, B's and C's are everywhere! A lot depends on what you want it for, and what you're going to do with it too.... Hope this helps!
------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 12:48pm
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Looks like the serial# might be C8793 which would make it a 1941. If it's 4 digits it's a 1941 either way. ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 1:55pm
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Unless the photo has been reversed that's a left hand plow. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 3:04pm
Good eye Dusty! I didn't notice that, and looking yet again, I see the matching Right hand plow under the rear field cultivator I believe. If everything is there to attach and use both plows on the tractor, that adds value to the unit in my opinion. Do you know if there are two hydrolic cylinders on the tractor, and a valve to select which cylinder you want to use? again, if that's all there, its a plus! ------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Dusty MI wrote:Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 3:15pm
Yep, see, there are two mounting brackets for where the front of the plows mount to this front mounting bracket. Must be a two way plow set up, cool! Anyone know anything about the way the plow mounts on the top ( to the rock shaft)?? What is the deal with the "half circle" mounting brackets? The ones I have, and have seen just mount with a half circle on the END of the bracket and a bolt mounts that arm to the rockshaft arm (if any of that makes sence?)?? **Edit** Oh never mind, after thinking about it, I answered my own question, that is because it is a two way plow, it has to be able to pivit on the rockshaft for the second plow.
------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 3:18pm
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Jacob, I missed the right one. I have 2 pair of right & left plows for my G. It has 1 hydraulic cylinder to lift them and a latch for each. You pull a release lever for which ever one you to drop. The B & C may be the same way. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 3:18pm
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Interesting situation. Yes, the rear looks like that of a C. The rear lift arrangement is that of a C. The tractor does have the selector valve and two rams. Looks like a C plow front drawbar. The Left Hand plow also includes the arrangement to attach to the rear lift bar. However, the mag picture shows the bracing (wishbone) for a B front end.
Quite frankly it appears what is shown is in good order. Does it turn over?
Yes, Perhaps more pictures are in order. Especially wide view of tractor.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 3:40pm
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What I can see in the pic with the serial # it looks like it starts out "C" to me. Do the steering arms and drag link point up with a gear box in the front pedestal, or is the drag link directly connected to the ft axle? Arms up = C. Direct to ft axle = B. Then again, there's always the chance of mixing and matching B and C parts to make 1 tractor.
------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 4:28pm
| I'd bet it has a C wide front because the B would have a pivot plate on the front rather than a casting as in the magneto picture. |
Posted By: 51WD(WI)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 4:45pm
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Thanks for all the info! The friend of mine that has this tractor has been in posession of it for the last 12 years.It belonged to his grandfather before he died. Suppositly his grandpa bought it from a friend who worked at the Allis Chalmers factory. I was at his place this weekend and saw it for the first time. The pic I took of the stamped # must be the correct location? if so, that is a "C" in front of the 4 digit number. Sorry I don't have a pic of the front, I thought I got that one. The front axle is a straight tube and adjustable. It does run well and the tires are excellent, probably 12 to 15 years old. I will try to get more pics this week. ------------- 51 WD serial# 95746 and 80949 58 D17 W/loader #10742 |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 7:09pm
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I agree with Dick L. It is a C with a factory wide front. I like the wide front C because most Cs were narrow fronts. Probably the C fenders rusted out like they like to do and were replaced with CA fenders. Original style C fenders are not reproduced.
I like the tattered canvas covered seat. It looks like it came with that C when new. I would like to send 51WD a swatch of new seat cover material and see if what have looks to be a close match to whats left of that old original.
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Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 7:57pm
I noticed the seat too Ken, and was wondering the same thing. I see this one has black piping around the seam. Are the other old originals like this too? I am curious. And the fenders, they are CA because of the bullet light right? I just assumed B fenders, but B's didn't come with bullet lights, so I guess that can't be. See you learn more every day! ------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 9:48pm
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Yep, looks like a pretty nice one. Why are they always somewhere far-far away from me? I would love to have a wide front C. I would also love to get hold of a two-way pick-up plow and the accessories for those. Looks like everything is there. May be a set of 80 series cultivators around to go with that rear field cultivator.
Looks like tractor has been taken pretty good care of.
Noticed the mag looks different than my 1946 does. I can see it says Allis-Chalmers on it. Kill switch tang is in a different spot too. Maybe a later model mag?
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 10:03pm
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I think I should have said, the seat Could Be original. A closer look at the stuffing in the pictures, looks like a chunk of old foam rubber. It has been many years since I sat on a original and I can't say for sure it had black piping back then. When our B seat got worn out and had holes in the canvas no foam rubber was under it. I remember some other kind of padding between the coil springs and the canvas. Layers of different stuff.
If anyone needs the pieces under the foot rest on the right side (part of the plow debth control linkage) I have a extra. I also have a extra pair of C plow drawbar mounting brackets.
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Posted By: 51WD(WI)
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 6:54am
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Here are 2 more pics of the front and left side, she really is in good original shape and has been indoors.
Dean   ------------- 51 WD serial# 95746 and 80949 58 D17 W/loader #10742 |
Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 12:40pm
| That sure looks like a CA front axle, steering gear box and drag link. Maybe a CA engine bolted up to a C torque tube, tranny and rear? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 12:54pm
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The CA wide and narrow fronts have two cultivator bosses that stick out the bottom front. That is a C wide front. That also has the short arms. |
Posted By: 51WD(WI)
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 3:10pm
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can someone with a 41 C post a pic to compare?
Dean ------------- 51 WD serial# 95746 and 80949 58 D17 W/loader #10742 |
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 4:17pm
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I tried to post a pic of my 41 C but it won't let me. Says this page cannot be displayed when I go to add a photo. ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 4:48pm
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I have not been able to get on the farm equipment forum all day. Bright House's Road Runner puts up a dialog box that says, sorry, we couldn't fine ww2.allischalmers.com. That's not the address that I have book marked. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:12pm
 ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:49pm
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That air cleaner is off a CA of 52-53 vintage or newer. All the early CA's and C's had the 2 clips holding the pan on. Looks like everything else is C. 51WD, if you could look at the engine number stamped on the right side engine rear flange, it might give some insight into what engine is in it.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: 51WD(WI)
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 6:03pm
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When I login, I am having the same problem as Dusty! ------------- 51 WD serial# 95746 and 80949 58 D17 W/loader #10742 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 6:36pm
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I tried to edit my post to say the left side engine flange and I can't get in to edit it. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: David Gantt N.C.
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 8:02pm
| I got to go with Dick L on this one (C wide front) but the breather looks like CA, would be a nice one to have, thanks for showing. |
Posted By: Kip-Utah
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 8:13pm
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It has the short steering arms that were only used on the very early Cs. Kip ------------- HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!! |
Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 9:15pm
| Also just noticed it has the big hole in the hood for the muffler. Wasn't that for a CA? Just my opinion, I think the gentleman that owned this old wide front C took very good care of it. When some parts started rusting out, he found a CA for some donor parts(hood, fenders, air cleaner). If you look at some of the first pics, you can see the strip that covers the wiring to the rear lights and bullet lights is pretty rusty compared to the hood and fenders. The fellow may have used the tractor to spread fertilizer with at some point. I know that's what rusted the fenders and sheet metal off my grandad's C. (that and 50 years sitting out in the back yard with only a bucket over the exhaust.LOL!) |
Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 9:18pm
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Yep, nice looking unit you're looking at there, definitely a C, with a few CA parts mixed in. I'd say go for it. If I was in the market for another C (which I'm not, though I'd think about trading one of mine for a wide front one.) Anyway, I'd easily go to the 1200$ range with this one, if is as nice and runs as nice, etc.... as it looks. keep us posted! ------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 9:21pm
| Ken, if that's foam rubber under that tattered canvas, it's not the original seat. The one on my grandad's C had been covered, but they used a canvas duck material similar to what was supposed to be on it. The seat has springs inside, a lot like an old mattress box spring. There was horsehair padding between the spring box and the covering. Grandad took an old quilt and added some extra padding under the canvas when he covered it. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 9:47pm
| At a glance you can tell all the parts on this tractor are not 1941 vintage by the age of the paint. Somebody has come a long way into restoring this C into this nice condition. Looks like a new steering wheel and front wheels. Cs with short steering arms were used up to C18162. Foot brakes on Cs started at C5756. |
Posted By: RichinWis
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 1:19am
| This C has a C steering box on the front, but the bottom part of the wide front, square tube and wishbone are CA! A C wide front has the braces that go out to the square tube that come out from the wishbone coming much farther out toward the spindle area. Also the brace is just cut off on the end instead of being machine flattened on the ends like this one, as they were on a CA. I am sure it is a C & CA morphed together, still looks pretty nice though. I would post a picture of my C wf but its not here at the house right now. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 8:04am
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From looking at parts book drawings of C and CA widefronts the most obvious difference is how the pivot bar braces are welded in. On a C the short brace is on the top of the long pivot bar wishbone which have a bend in them. On a CA the short brace is on the bottom of the long pivot bar wishbone which is straight. Can't really see this in the photo of the front axle back in page 1. Both short braces appear to be welded to the box tube in the same place near the ends on both the C and the CA
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Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 9:02am
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Probly right Rich. I would guess the top casting and short arm was from a narrow front and was not removed and the CA wide axle was bolted to it. I never tried that switch but it always looked like it could work. That would just be a four bolt chore and one pivot nut. No tin, drag links or radiator to remove. Seems the way to go if you like that short arm. |