doubling transmissions
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=87535
Printed Date: 28 Nov 2024 at 5:38am
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Topic: doubling transmissions
Posted By: blue924.9
Subject: doubling transmissions
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2014 at 7:31pm
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there was a thread on here lately about running a wd or wd45 with a wc transmission in front of it. after concurring with my grandpa i found out that we have the needed parts and can fabricate the parts we cant buy or get, i was just wondering how one would go about adding the trans in front of the wd trans, and any benefits and disadvantages to adding the wc trans. ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2014 at 8:50pm
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The benefits would be all the extra gears you would have for going slower or faster depending on which way you mounted it (can't have it both ways by adding one tranny). The bad is you lose your hand clutch unless you want to extend the frame and do a lot of work. If you could put a say, Ford truck 5 speed with OD in there you could have one OD gear and a bunch of slower gear with syncro shifting  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2014 at 6:17am
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PM sent ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2014 at 6:34am
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This thread had some pictures of what it looks like http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80717&title=more-high-crops-tractors-from-la" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80717&title=more-high-crops-tractors-from-la ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2014 at 7:52am
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More gears, more choices. More parasitic load, more weight probably where it isn't wanted. I don't like a lot of choices, it's just more oportunity to pick the wrong gear. If you don't want to spend much money but you want to spend time, there's plenty of things to learn about carbuerators and camshafts that will help more than having a split gear. Build a good hitch assembly so you can adjust it and maintain the 20" limit with the slack taken out. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2014 at 8:27am
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My Willys 4WD pickup had 3speed tranny---Warn OD unit---2speed xfercase, giving it a 12 speed setup. Fun part was figuring out the correct shift pattern! Not as simple as you think....It was much better on the highway as the final gave me 3.73 though pumpkins were 4.88s! Unless you have a real reason to add the 2nd tranny and NOTHING better to do, go for it ! Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: WildBill
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2014 at 9:42am
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Ideal to this post would be to pull all drive line bearings and put NTN low friction bearings in place of those 60 year old technology hardware. You will gain more HP to the ground than adding another headache to shift . Btw covers don't hide additional transmissions from an official tech. Bending to many rules will send your pulling credibility to the jiffy jon. ------------- Allis fan for life ! B,C,2-WC'S,WD45G,D19G,190xt ,LLSS 8010, terra tiger refurbished |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 6:00am
| Why in Sam Hill anyone would want to add a second transmission for tractor pulling is beyond me. If you need slower gearing, fix the engine and make more HP. If you need a gear between 1st and 2nd, fix the engine and make more HP so 2nd gear works. It really is that simple. |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 10:14am
really it is not that simple, cant run anything faster than first gear in my class. also this would be cheaper than rebuilding the engine and it would put down more power through the gear multiplication than rebuilding the motor as this tractor actually gets used on the farm so we cant turn it up too much or it will overheat on the auger. i am not scared of the shift pattern, that can be learned and it isnt bending the rules in our association, our assocation and the ones around us allow for these things, the way they see it it is no differnent than a factory installed over or underdrive or having a creeper first gear option. also according to the article i read about it, the transmission is lighter than the hand clutch and its housing, and it gets rid of one more thing that could slip ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
DrAllis wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 12:46pm
| Yup. Lot's of tractors win first place going slower than the rest of the competition!! Good luck ! An engine can be built with components that still allow regular gasoline and still be capable of running an "auger".....A.K.A. 175 HP output, but you go right on ahead and install that there magic extra transmission. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 1:23pm
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 3:44pm
| I couldn't see the bore and stroke either, but I could see a BF Goodrich tire on the right side and an Armstrong on the left. Is there a benefit to that? Do you have another pair just like them at home? |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 3:48pm
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So you're running out of power in 1st gear. You have options 1. drop the drawbar 2. put smaller tires on 3. Change the ring and pinion with a WD45 diesel or D-17 4. make more power Myself I'd opt for option #4. You can do this for very little money and less work than cobbing a transmission in. Simply retard the cam one tooth on the timing gears, unless you can measure true TDC and degree the cam, this is your best option. If you could take the head off the engine and measure things out, you could actually position the cam where it is needed with precision. The 1 tooth retarded is the easy option, not as good as putting it where it is needed but better than where it's at. Your intake manifold sucks. They are bad, with a few hours of work they can be made decent. Your carbuerator is already to small..... but don't put a bigger one on. Just do some modifications to get more through it or you won't have enough engine to pull enough signal to make a bigger carbuerator work. Again a few hours of work. If you are able to fabricate the brackets and adapters to put a transmission in, you are able to make a carbuerator venturi and do some epoxy work in the bowl to help the air line up with the venturi. It won't be hard to find 25% more air flow through your carbuerator pretty quick and still keep a small enough venturi that it pulls good signal at low speed. So with some thought and advice, you can spend no more than some basic shop supplies and learn something. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 4:01pm
Yes, there is a benefit.........they are better than his rice and cane tires he thought were the hot ticket. He poped the other BF Goodrich when he ran himself over starting his tractor from the ground in gear but avoided catastrophe with the porta potties ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 4:15pm
| So a flat tire changes brand name. Lol. |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 8:25pm
hey doc calm down, didnt mean any disrespect or anything, maybe in the classes you pull where the more hp and speed you have the farther you go, but in my class, the added gear multiplication from the second trans would be of benefit to me, but you are right, an engine with built components can run all day on an auger and be fine, but those cost money, and mcburgarf was right, i am a teenager so i cant afford those components, so the fact that a secondary transmission would multiply my engines torque and therefore make it pull farther would be of benefit to me, even more of a benefit is the fact that i have two wc transmissions available to me and a shop to work on my tractor for for FREE is even better. you have to look at it from my angle, remember this is being a broke teenager with a tractor that will hold its own when its not on a power track, that has very little money to spend, who gets offered a free transmission and a shop to install it in rather than spend all kinds of money for these performance parts to make 100 hp, to run 3rd gear in a class with a 2.5 mph speed limit. so in my case yes going slower is going to make me go farther
------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 8:34pm
alright, i read this after i posted in response to doc, thinking about all this stuff logically, it would make sense to do a little engine work first, then run it for a year and see what happens, if that still isnt enough, even with the small amount of engine work that needs to be done, nothing radical just a refresh with 1/8 inch overbore pistons and a wd45 crank then i could always add the transmission, sorry if i am thinking a little illogically and being a little stubborn, this is all starting to make sense now ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: WildBill
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 8:51pm
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We all cud have given you a pat on the back if you were not driving orange and said good luck :-) hope all goes well pulling 2014 for ya ------------- Allis fan for life ! B,C,2-WC'S,WD45G,D19G,190xt ,LLSS 8010, terra tiger refurbished |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 7:42am
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here is the article i read about it https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=6a230f348c&view=att&th=1452ec8d1598b4bb&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 7:52am
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thanks bill ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mattb
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 10:08am
| geez all you engine builders get upset when somebody finds a way for a bone stock wd45 to run 15.5 38s in a 3 or 4 mph class and win with out spending a lot of money which I don't or the guy asking the question sounds like he has. that's what I built for my buddy that didn't have a lot of money to spend and he does win with it. pulls up to 4500 pound class with out killing it |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 10:23am
you are correct, though i only have 28 inch rubber on the tractor, rules wont let me go much bigger, only wider ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mattb
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 11:01am
| if you cant run 38inch rubber id find somewhere else to pull because your already at a disadvantage. 28s can pull good but u have to really be on top of your game. me I like to drink a couple beers and look at the girls than constantly study the track. |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 9:19pm
i was wrong, we can have 38 inch rubber, its just we have decent tires on there now that are matched pretty good with the power of the motor, simple mix up my bad. i am not for sure but i do believe my grandpa has a set of 38 inch firestones to put on it after the rims get widened, and of course then we would have to figure out the speed, which is why the plan was to put a set of wider tires on in 28 inch rubber, but since he found the article about doubling transmissions it would be possible now to legally run 38 inch rubber, but i have not talked to him yet to see if that would be in the works edit: that sounds like us,with the help of my grandpa and his 25 plus years of pulling experience we usually have the setup spot on by the 4000 pound class, 3500 is hit and miss do to not having been on the track yet, this last year i did what he said after he concurred with me how the tractor handled and how the track was, and took notes, although this year i am bringing a notebook lol!!
------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: mattb
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 7:38am
| If you don't already have 4.5 inch stroke thatd be the first thing id save my money up to do. I saw a crank for sale the other day for 150 money well spent. |
Posted By: blue924.9
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 8:38am
already have the 4.5 crank and 1/8 inch overbore pistons, just haven't had time to get them in, was supposed to be a winter project this year, but more important tractors started having issues and needed attention first ------------- hi my names dan, I am a young guy. i have a problem, i prefer my tractors orange and my clutches mechanical, thanks for letting me share |
Posted By: WildBill
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:11am
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A well tuned 226 will pull amazing. seen lots of guys win with 28 or 38 rubber. This forum has covered this stuff many times. ------------- Allis fan for life ! B,C,2-WC'S,WD45G,D19G,190xt ,LLSS 8010, terra tiger refurbished |
Posted By: Dirty Harry
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 2:00pm
| Oh by the way I am from Washington. Yes I did add a WC transmission in front of the WD45 transaxel. None of my gears repeat. It gives me 6 gears from 4.2 mph to 8.1mph at 2300 rpm with 18.4 38s on 20s. It's no different than cutting a custom gear or adding a aftermarket underdrive. I didn't change the wheelbase and no custom connector shaft is required. And I used factory parts. If you guys won't let me pass tech at some of your pulls that's fine I won't pull at your clubs. We pull USAP around here and they are cool with it. I am a younger guy (26) and I am excited about pulling. This is my third year. You older guys need to make sure you encourage the younger generation if this sport is going to last. If you wanna see pictures there is a Facebook forum Antique Tractor Pulling Forum. By the way a 12 to 1 compression 302 gleaner e-code is headed my way too. Thanks guys. |
Posted By: dgerth
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 8:14am
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Dirty Harry, Where do you pull in WA? We have a really good club over in the Columbia Basin. dg
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Posted By: Dirty Harry
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 11:48am
| I pull both Port Orchard shows, Wilcox, and Elma in years past. This year I will add late Quincy and Moses lake. |
Posted By: dgerth
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2014 at 5:27am
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D Harry, Hopefully see you at one of them this year. dg
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