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Usual Jumping Out Of 3rd Gear ?

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment -Knowledge Base
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=84862
Printed Date: 26 Nov 2020 at 7:59pm
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Topic: Usual Jumping Out Of 3rd Gear ?
Posted By: Herb(GA)
Subject: Usual Jumping Out Of 3rd Gear ?
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2014 at 11:54pm
Our '58 D-14 was one of the tractors that Jack(Ky) mentioned; eliminated the "jumping out of third gear" by adjusting the detents. That was four years ago; worked great ever since.
Jack also added power steering to our D-14 by adding a Charlyn torque generator and a small hydraulic pump, it also works great. 



Replies:
Posted By: Jack(Ky)
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 6:34pm
Thanks Herb.
 


Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 12 May 2014 at 2:13pm
wow you guys who preach not to grind gears must have lots of free time. Sometimes you cant help but grind a little. I have had two d14's now and both had worn out clutch linkage when I bought them, making it hard to shift, I think this is what causes the excessive grinding that eventually wears the gears out. there is a bushing that goes on the pedal assembly and one that goes on the rod that goes to the clutch.on both of my tractors the bushings were gone and the holes are wallowed out. After adjusting the linkage they shift much better! but it's too late for my tractors they both need 3rd gear work.


Posted By: Charlie (NC)
Date Posted: 21 May 2014 at 5:57pm
Cen IA John,

I guess you and I are the lucky ones. I've got a D-10
that my dad bought new and 2 D-14's plus I had another D-10
a few years back. None of them have ever jumped out of gear.
The transmission in the D-10 sounds like a corn sheller but it
stays in gear. It's good to know I'm lucky at something!


Posted By: Charlie (NC)
Date Posted: 21 May 2014 at 6:00pm
Mack Tractor, I spent a lot of time behind a RTO 125-13 Roadranger
and could shift it no clutch with no problem but if there is a way
to shift a D series A-C without the clutch I'd love to see it done.
Not saying it can't be but I sure don't know how.


Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 23 May 2014 at 11:02pm
Apple:  Depends on amount of damage.  Aside from gears (numbers needed may vary), you may need either an input shaft or pinion shaft (or both) - not available new.  When I rebuild mine (done 3 of them), I usually replace all of the bearings in the tranny as well.  $1000 is on the cheap side to me.  You will not know for sure until you tear down.  

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'49 G, '54 WD45, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '85 6080


Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 24 May 2014 at 2:22pm
A D17 I bought wont stay in 3rd gear at all. Previous owner said it just happened in one shift?? The gear itself has very little wear where the collar slides on. the shift fork was wore down some so I welded it back up and ground it smooth. That helped enough that you could let the clutch out and it would stay in gear but as soon as you move the power director it jumps out. You cannot push on it hard enough to stay in 3rd gear. Could the collar be wore out that much without the gear being that bad?? Any suggestions??


Posted By: LarryBarnett
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 7:18pm
    My D19 jumps out of 3rd gear (and sometimes 2nd) while going downhill, especially with something pushing hard. I can push lightly on the gear shift lever and prevent it from jumping out. It has never jumped out of a gear while pulling. It has only recently started doing this and I never grind gears, though a previous owner could have.
    Do the previous many possible problems and possible fixes all still apply, or does this narrow down the range of problems (and fixes) somewhat? Thanks!
            


Posted By: ryanschott
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 7:28pm
i had the same problem with my d14 3rd gears always jumpd out and i opened it up and there was some rounding of the gears and the collars but the shift fork was worn to half the thickness i bent it a little and now 2nd gear jumps out but not 3rd and i used third all the time so it helped me for the time being


Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by LarryBarnett LarryBarnett wrote:

    My D19 jumps out of 3rd gear (and sometimes 2nd) while going downhill, especially with something pushing hard. I can push lightly on the gear shift lever and prevent it from jumping out. It has never jumped out of a gear while pulling. It has only recently started doing this and I never grind gears, though a previous owner could have.
    Do the previous many possible problems and possible fixes all still apply, or does this narrow down the range of problems (and fixes) somewhat? Thanks!
            


Yes, this is the problem, and the solutions were posted above.  Most affected tractors do jump out of gear going downhill (especially with a load behind it), but my D14 only did it going up hill (without a load).  Either way, the problems in the tranny are still the same.  Holding the gear shift in place can get tiring after a while.  Yes, even though you are easy on the transmission, previous owners probably were not.


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'49 G, '54 WD45, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '85 6080


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 11:20am
This was the cause for me to lose reverse and to jump out of third 180D,



Reverse completely broke away, 3rd/4th fork had one ear missing, managed to get all the loose parts out with a magnet.


Posted By: LloydCentWi
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2014 at 5:39pm
I have a 1959 d17 doesn't jump out of gears. A 1957 D14 that also doesn't jump out of any gears. A D19 that has jumped out of third since the day we bought it in about 1999. When I'm in third and starting to go downhill I put my hand on the shifter and it stays in gear. Doesn't take much force just a little pressure. Thinking about trying the detent fix on an extra shifter I picked up for the purpose.


Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 7:03am
Originally posted by Charlie (NC) Charlie (NC) wrote:

Cen IA John,
The transmission in the D-10 sounds like a corn sheller but it
stays in gear. It's good to know I'm lucky at something!

Is it only in 3rd? Is it a Series 3? If so then AC had a bulletin out that suggested replacing the new to the Series 3 reverse gear with the older style to reduce driveline noise.


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Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD


Posted By: jbelow2
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2014 at 7:17pm
As read, one source of potential cause for jumping is the grinding of gears. My D17 seems to take a long while to "relax" to slip the shifter into gear.  Doesn't seem to matter.. It is sometimes hard to get into all gears.  We never try to grind the gears, but sometimes when we stop to shift gears..it grinds and reminds us we have to wait.  Is there anything that may cause the transmission to keep running but the tractor to stop normally with the clutch pedal.   I do know... do not even try until the brush hog COMPLETELY comes to a stop.  otherwise grinding for sure..  I just think sometimes it takes forever.. 


Posted By: bullett
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 4:31pm
WELL THANKS GUYS FOR ALL THE INFO. ON JUMPIN OUT OF GEAR  .BOUGHT MY FRIST 185 ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO AND STARTED TO LOAD ON TRAILER  AND HAD IT IN 3RD. GEAR AND TUN DOWN A HILL  AND AWAY WE GO AND THE OLD GUY I HAD JUST PAYED SAID" O I FORGOT TO TELL YOU ABOUT THAT" BEEN AN IH GUY ALL MY LIFE  MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE STAY THAT WAY  LOLLOLLOL  BUT I LIKE THE TRACTOR   AND I  WILL GET HER FIXED UP
PAUL


Posted By: Dean (West MI)
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by jbelow2 jbelow2 wrote:

As read, one source of potential cause for jumping is the grinding of gears. My D17 seems to take a long while to "relax" to slip the shifter into gear.  Doesn't seem to matter.. It is sometimes hard to get into all gears.  We never try to grind the gears, but sometimes when we stop to shift gears..it grinds and reminds us we have to wait.  Is there anything that may cause the transmission to keep running but the tractor to stop normally with the clutch pedal.   I do know... do not even try until the brush hog COMPLETELY comes to a stop.  otherwise grinding for sure..  I just think sometimes it takes forever.. 


The pressure plate assembly was bad in my 615 making it difficult to shift.


Posted By: Bobjones
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 5:33pm
Had the same problem (jumping out of third gear). In my case I had to replace the collar and third gear. They both had allot of wear.


Posted By: Dennis IL
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2015 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by oldorangeiron oldorangeiron wrote:

I am doing my D14 with factory parts. My pinion shaft gears and collars were all in bad shape. I can tell you that 2000 dollar figure above is about spot on. Here is a picture of where the damage occurs, before disassembly. I will post pics over the coming days of the process.
This shows the pinion shaft, if you look carefully at the gears, you are able to see rounded edges where the collars slide over to engage the gear, it's there that the problem is usually caused, not the gear teeth themselves, also, its hard to see the teeth on the collars, but they wear as well.:
http://s1267.photobucket.com/user/oldorangeiron/media/DSCF2027_zps9b6cdee8.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
I have a friend that has a L600 D15 that is jumping out of 1st gear. Can you get to the gears for repair without splitting? is this possible?



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HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE GOD CAN STAND BEFORE ANY MAN


Posted By: Bobjones
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2015 at 4:00pm
In my case it was a 185 and I HAD to split. I am sorry now that I didn't do the brakes while I was there.


Posted By: Rogers
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2015 at 9:55am
My uncle and dad ran an Allis Chalmers dealership in the 1960's, and my dad helped me rebuild the transmission in my D-15.

He told me that third gear was a problem in the D-10, D-12, D-14 and D-15 tractors. It is due to grinding of the gears when shifting as is said above, and my dad said it was more prevalent in 3rd gear because it was a common gear used for working land.

He told me that when you replace 3rd gear you should always replace the reverse gear. 3rd gear pinion teeth lock into the reverse gear. If you only replace one gear you only replace half the problem. Other gears lock into a shifter collar as pictured in several posts above not into a gear. Because of the fact you are replacing two gears when repairing 3rd gear it is a more expensive repair.

As mentioned above you can get the gears from AGCO. They are pricey, and I agree with the 2000 dollar price given above for AGCO gears. You can get aftermarket gears from some resources.

However, when I rebuild my D-15 transmission I bought all of them except 4th gear pinion shaft from AGCO or as luck would have it some items came from the old Allis Chalmers dealership that my dad and uncle ran. Yep, they were still in the shelf in the cans! The after market 4th gear pinion had a different look to the metal than the original Allis Chalmers or AGCO gears. Is that good or bad? I won't say, but they are obviously different. Because of that I think that AGCO is the way to go for transmission parts.

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Think for yourself and be your own expert. Be willing to change your mind; however, willingness to change your mind doesn’t mean that you will. Blindly following any path is the pinnacle of insanity.


Posted By: Bobjones
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2015 at 8:02pm
This 3rd gear problem would only happen once if you were to do the work yourself. I had to remove the cab, split the tractor, open the transmission etc. NOW I WAIT FOR FULL STOP BEFORE SHIFTING GEARS.
Lesson well learnt.


Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 5:51am
On a 190xt does the tractor need split? Also will the gears from a 190 work inside a 190xt III?


Posted By: Bobjones
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 8:35am
Yes the 190xt has to be split to change 3rd gear and collar. And yes 3rd gear parts from 180, 185, 190,and 190xt are the same.


Posted By: gerkendave
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2015 at 8:48am
Thank you Mr Jones!


Posted By: Larry@Yorktown
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 12:06pm
I have a 196? D19 and it also jumps out of 3 or 4 of the gears.  The 1K price fix does not sound good.  It is always the gear I am trying to use.  I was hoping a simple adjustment.


Posted By: Bobjones
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 7:13pm
On the 185 some adjustment are done by removing the shifter cover but that gets pretty complicated. Some change or move the shifter rod indents for spring and ball by re welding them and then re drilling over a bit.    


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2015 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Larry@Yorktown Larry@Yorktown wrote:

I have a 196? D19 and it also jumps out of 3 or 4 of the gears.  The 1K price fix does not sound good.  It is always the gear I am trying to use.  I was hoping a simple adjustment.


If you have 3 gears jumping out I doubt you will get it fixed for 1K. Maybe 3K if somebody else does the work and uses AGCO parts, MAYBE?


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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


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Date Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 4:08am


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Posted By: 45 turboa-
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 9:25pm
I had a D19 you could not hold the shifting lever hard enough to keep it in 4th the input shaft brg. was bad I replaced the brg. and it never jumped out again.Also had a 180 that wouldn't stay in 2nd I took the shifting cover off I saw the trans was in bad shape so took a die grinder and ground the cogs on the 2nd gear streight again were the collar slides on now it don't jump out yet.  But I know it will have to be rebuilt sometime.

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turbocharged


Posted By: Rockmaple
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2017 at 8:31am
How do you adjust the detente? We have the same issue with our D14


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2017 at 10:27am
There is no "adjusting" the detent. You have to remove the shift cover and relocate the detent notch a bit for a deeper shift stroke and weld up the other end of the notch.  A 3/8" carbide burr die grinder is what I use and a calipers to measure where I want it located. It's not a job for a beginner in my opinion.


Posted By: lawhk
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 12:56pm
Hi I'm looking for someone who has taken these tractors apart to repair the trans, and am wondering if there are any particular things to watch for. My unit is a 1954 wd45 that jumps out of 2nd.


Posted By: Jack(Ky)
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 9:24am
I take the detent shaft out and tig weld one end of the groove up and take the same amount out of the other end and it lets go in gear deeper. If they had done this when building them we wouldn't be having so many of these conversations.JP

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'59 D14 '68 170 Diesel '81 7020 40 All Crop



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