what has to be done to run JD sleeves
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81531
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Topic: what has to be done to run JD sleeves
Posted By: firephight
Subject: what has to be done to run JD sleeves
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2013 at 1:21pm
Replies:
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2013 at 4:46pm
To run JD sleeves in what? Which JD sleeves? What bore diameter do you want?
In my mind making another color OEM sleeve fit into and Allis block is a waste of time and money if you are wanting a large overbore engine. If you have custom, high strength sleeves made you can make them thinner and still have more sleeve strength which also make the block stronger due to less material removed from the block to make the sleeves fit. A much better, stronger product will be the end result.
If this is for the Illinois hot farm tractor you are thinking of building, I am going to give you a piece of advice which I hope helps: Making a 630 C.I. 426 is an expensive adventure particularly if it is built to withstand and unlimited turbo class. Anything over 531 C.I would be pricey (not that 531 wouldn't be). I admire your interest in diesel pulling, But the rules in the class would be brutal for a 426 Allis in my opinion. Not saying it can't be done, but maybe some rules that limit the C.I. to 470 and a limited inlet turbo would be a better place to start especially if this is your first go around with a diesel.
Good luck.
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Posted By: allisanddodge
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2013 at 8:38pm
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I am going to assume you are asking about a WC,WD,WD45, OR D17 engine. Use the Deere 4.56 sleeves. Bore the block to accept them. Then hard block it to bottom of water pump hole leaving room for about 1/4 in. of sealer. Or you could just fill it & run a dry block. After it is DONE curing, bore the sleeves to 4.6 & use chev. overbore 454 pistons. Rod selection will depend on what you want for stroke. A D-17 block is best as they are a quite a bit stronger.
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2013 at 9:33pm
I've used the Deere sleeves in a lot of the 201-226 type engines. I machine the sleeve to fit the block bores and then I can bore to 4.25" or 4.28" in some engines without having to bore the block itself to install larger sleeves.
Other times I use a larger sleeve and machine the sleeves, then bore the block for the larger bore engines.
In both cases I use about .0005-.001" or so press fit in the block, anymore and you'll likely cause future problems as well as a fight to get them in. If you're boring the block for a large bore, there's only a thin ribbon of material left between the sleeves anyway and it won't take much to break it as there's nothing to support the block for the length of it in the bottom web. I put a little sleeve retainer around the bottom counterbore and I put an inch or so of a fiber filler in the block when done. I use Rock Blok (spelling?) from Competition Products in Oshkosh Wi. It's fiber based filler that is water tight and not hard on tooling should you end up boring into it in the future. Grout based fillers like Hard Block are not water tight and are hard on tooling.
Now it's fine for me to do, I'll take the time and I have the tools to make the sleeves. If I had to pay someone then I would just order a ductile iron sleeve from a sleeve manufacturer. The ductile sleeves will be stronger, you'll be able to run a thinner sleeve if space is a concern. Used diesel sleeves are typically induction hardened, they have a high nickel content, they are brittle compared to the ductile and are much harder on tooling to machine. It's a case of it's fine if you can do it yourself, otherwise buy custom made ductile sleeves.
In the past I had made some sets and sold. I just don't have time to make more, I go through enough tooling and time that I probably won't even make them for myself anymore.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Posted By: allisanddodge
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2013 at 10:14pm
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You are right about Hard Block not holding water. We used a sealer on top of it on mine. Sometimes works-sometimes doesn't I have 2 WC's with this setup, 1 hasn't leaked a drop since 2002 and the other 1 has always leaked. I've about got it stopped with stop leak, but still drain it if it's going to sit over 3 or 4 days. Didn't know about the product you use. Will keep that in mind. Thanks
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Posted By: firephight
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2013 at 10:14am
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Sorry this is for a 226 block and chevy pistons (454) and for the diesel tractor my wife put the kabosh to that. So going to build up my wd45 and unstyled wc
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2013 at 6:58pm
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I've got four extras (new) machined and ready to go for 4.625" bore. $110 each.
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2013 at 7:29pm
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Sorry, I was still thinking of your previous "D21 Transmission" post and thought that's what you were referring to. Glad to hear my wife isn't the only one putting the "kabosh" to things....
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Posted By: firephight
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2013 at 8:21pm
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Not looking to go that big. 4.25 is the biggest
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Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 4:34pm
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as long as the bottom bore doesn't exceed 4.800 you can bore on center . most sleeves with a inside bore of 4.25 will have a od smaller than 4.8 and can be purchased new for less than 70 dollars a piece. Bore it straight with .002 crush drill and tap with counter sunk screw in bottom like most motorcycle sleeves are done hone for pistons and go pulling.
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2013 at 6:53pm
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Do you even need to bore the block to get to 4.250 bore? I would think with the right sleeve material it could be done but I don't know what the upper and lower pilot diameters are on a 226 block. No need to press fit them in if you can use the upper flange right??
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:23am
The bottom counterbore in these blocks is 4.475" Diameter.. I do a few of these setups at 4.25 And 4.28" bores.
The top flange diameter is 4.75" and the top counterbore is 4.530". So I machine the sleeves to fit snug in the flange and top ccounterbore, I try for a very light press fit in the bottom counter bore and I make the sleeve barrel, or the part of the sleeve exposed to the water jacker 4.520", that let's it slip through the top counterbore easily and gives a sleeve thickness of .140 With a 4.25" bore, or .125" with a 4.28" bore.
So yes Mike, you're correct.
If you are interested firephight I have a block done and ready to go. WD #31 201 Block with 4.28" bore, new Sealed Power BBC hyperutectic pistons, bored, honed, decked, and mains line bored. Block was blasted clean inside and out. Lifter bores honed, new cam bearings. I had put together a few of these And have some various crank and rod combos.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Posted By: firephight
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 6:38pm
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