Sleeve Wall thickness?
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73580
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 6:29pm
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Topic: Sleeve Wall thickness?
Posted By: Lunker
Subject: Sleeve Wall thickness?
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 1:08pm
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How thin can a person dare go on the sleeve wall thickness? I am using JD 4020 sleeves and plan on a 10:1 comp ratio! Thanks, Lunker |
Replies:
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:37am
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.093 if hardblocked with no water trying to be run in block . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 2:08pm
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Lunker, I cannot claim to have enough knowledge to recommend the thickness to stop at. But I can recommend you look at someone's previous posts before taking their advise. JimD ------------- Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 2:20pm
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JimD wrote:Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 2:55pm
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just research thin wall sleeve thickness from melling ,la sleeve or darton and make your own opinion. its not the compression as much as it is the diameter of sleeve and steam pockets from water not flowing pushing inward on the sleeve . i fix alot of sleeve issues on blocks where sleeve is to thin and they tried to run water. we heat the block once sleeves has been installed several cycles untill the sleeve drop has topped. The block we are repairing now number three sleeve had fallen 1/4 inch below deck when we got it. i am the most ignorant builder there is andi repair alot of others work so what does that say about them. lol ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 3:38pm
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I can say this with a great deal of confidence: If you use L.A. Sleeve or Darton minimum thickness specs on 4020 sleeve material you will have trouble. The material used for a John Deere sleeve is not the same or nearly as strong as the ductile material used at you high performance sleeve manufacturers. Good ductile sleeves aren't too badly priced if you know where to shop. If you consider the machine time and money spent on making the John Deere sleeves fit you could pay for a good portion of the new, higher strength ductile sleeves and have a much better build in the long run. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 6:16pm
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A sleeve from a diesel is typically induction hardened. This is done to prevent wear, your old sleeves from a gas engine like the Allis are wore out verry quick, they are made from soft grey iron.
The sleeves from a custom sleeve manufacturer are going to be made from a spun casting, they are either made from ductile or grey iron. Ductile is much better and only slightly more $$, it will depend on the length of the sleeves, how many they can make from a casting and how many you are ordering. But you can figure on $125 per hole by the time you have them in your hand, maybe more, maybe less.
Those John Deere sleeves are just fine, they will wear a long time and in a naturally aspirated gas engine they will hold up just fine. But don't take someone's advice by following minimum reccomondations for a custom made ductile iron sleeve, the John Deere will not have near the elasticity.
I'm pretty "resourcefull" on these old engines and use a lot of used liners from diesels, turned to size on mandrills and bore the block, but I don't try to get away with running them to thin or following minium thickness requirements for another totally different sleeve. When there's snow on the ground and I'm tinkering on one of the antique engines my time isn't worth to much, a few carbide inserts are cheap and used JD sleeves are free...... If I'm busy though and something needs to get done, then I have more money than time.
Do I know how thin you can go with them? No, that's going to depend on your rod ratio, how well you can fill the cylinders and timeing. You can't fill the cylinders to well on these antique engines, it's probably not going to run fast, but I'd stay around .125" for a min sleeve thickness as a matter of personal opinion backed by experience and others experiences and failures. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 6:35pm
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I should add that I don't like to use HardBlock. It's grout based and will wick water. It's also hard on tooling.
Competition Products out of Oshkosh Wi. sells a product called RokBlock, it's fiber based and seals, it cuts easy if you ever go back and change things. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: THE-MAN
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:29pm
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Lets see a pic of a sleeve sunk down 1/4" . If it moved that far, obviously someone didnt know how to bore. Sleeves are held in either by the flange on top or by a step on the bottom. If it moved very far, and much less than the afore mentioned 1/4" , I find it difficult to see how it didnt get shucked down into the rotating assembly. If someone just pressed it into an existing sleeve, they werent too smart to begin with, and its showing. I think the if in fact it DID sink 1/4 inch, it would be broken. Either way, the sinking is just the byproduct of a FUBAR bore job. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 8:56am
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Sleeves will sink some no matter. To sink as much as that one did it was obviously installed on not enough of a square step. Interference fit technically according to sleeve manufacturers is what holds the sleeve. We have it fixed at the bottom now no step no weld no flange. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |