So how rare is a D17 Wheatland propane?
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Topic: So how rare is a D17 Wheatland propane?
Posted By: ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
Subject: So how rare is a D17 Wheatland propane?
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 7:53pm
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Thought you all might like to see this gem in the rough.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200430329761&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D200430329761%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200430329761&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m38.l1313%26_nkw%3D200430329761%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
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Replies:
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:01pm
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Will be a good one to watch! ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Anthony
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:04pm
| is that a true wheatland, it almost looks like the fenders are for that tractor, I have never seen one before. |
Posted By: Anthony
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:06pm
| that last reply reads like crap, I meant to say those fenders dont look like they are made for that tractor...........sometimes my mind works faster than my fat fingers |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:39pm
| Thats a nice straight Wheatland. Its the real deal and a true very rare tractor. I had a gas wheatland that I sold to Ben J a year ago. The serial number is very close to the one that I had. I'm restoring a D-17 D grove that has very similiar fenders but closed in on the outside. |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 10:09pm
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Boy I would think super rare. I'm guessing here but 5% of the guestimated 200 wheatlands built or about 10. I think there's two of them in the 1959 promotional photo where they ligned up 43 tractors to spell the letter "D". Daryl K. posted a couple of weeks ago about someone out west that had 5 or 6 of them and 1 of them was a LP unit. It looks like a fairly unmolested original although I find it odd that he says the steering
is locked up. This should be a fun one to watch. Ben did you get enough hi crops sold?
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Posted By: acben20
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 11:14pm
| I did get some tractors sold, Looks like a ok tractor but the motor is stuck and its missing the rear rims these are off a combine i would gess. I have one LP now and I have a total of 6 wheatlands all together. I dont know if i need #7. they say there were 200 made but i think there were a few more than that as I know where there are a good # of them my self. they just keep showing up. It's like the D14 high crop book says 6 made and i have seen over 15 of them my self. so who really know of the production #. |
Posted By: DarrylinWA
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 11:21pm
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Yes Bob Vanderploeg has the 6 Wheatlands. His restored ones is the gas, proapne and Diesel set. Old Allis News had a picture of his Propane when Dave Clausen did a article on him in Tulare CA. at the GOTO.
Take care, Darryl Krause in Lynden WA. ------------- B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 11:35pm
Here's a pic of Bob's wheatland.....
there were a lot of drool marks on it..... ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 6:26am
| Are you sure those are the wrong rims Ben? They look like they have wheel weights on the inside of them so they're hard to see whether or not they are the right rims. I know someone around here that has three wheatlands, I think one of them is a diesel and also has an AC loader mounted onto it. They are neat machines. I showed my wife this one, and she says it looks better then any tractor I have right now. I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. I guess I just like collecting them and fixing them, but I haven't gotten to that restoration thing. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 6:55am
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Chuck, the seller says the rims are not the same. The right side wheel is not shown in any picture and does not have a weight.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 7:27am
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Ben you and Bob should get together and compare serial numbers. The seller is listing
the serial number as 28241 and the first serial number for a 1960 D17 is 28200 and
Calvin stated that 28241 was close to the one he sold you. I guess what I'm trying to say is it possible that the wheatland models where produced consecutively starting at serial number 28200?
Also Norm's book lists 287 LP models out of 4,543 total D17's built in the 1960 year or
about 6.3% of all 17's in that year had a LP engine. I know of at least two wheatlands less than twenty miles from me and I should go pay them guys a visit and get their numbers.
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Posted By: acben20
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 8:02am
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the rim on the right side is off a combine and the rim on the left is off a case tractor. thanks ben~!! |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 9:07am
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I actually have a registry of western (A-C called them westerns due to IH having wheatland pattened) D17s. There are a bit over 30 in exhistance. So far I have yet to find a two numbers in a row.
If anyone that has a western tractor and hasnt talked to me please send me an e-mail with your name and serial number. I'd appreciated it.
Also Ben, can you send me the numbers off of yours?
Jim
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Posted By: Joe(OH)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 1:25pm
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I was told that the wheatland package was a dealer installed kit. I don’t know if this is true or not, but that would mean that the serial numbers might not matter. Joe ------------- Life is simpler when you plow around the stump. |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 10:20pm
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Joe, I have never heard or seen that in any books or sales literature. If that was the case I think it would be mentioned in sales literature or parts manuals. I do know a dealer that sold them new and they were brought up to him from West Allis as western tractors. Jim |
Posted By: RichinWis
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 9:48am
| I was at an auction about 6 or 7 years ago in Ohio with scads of Allis stuff, I bought a WD45 propane dual fuel there, and they had a new wheatland kit there that was brand new, wheels without tires, fenders and all, and it went for somewhere around $2000.00 so that makes me belive the Dealer installed kit Idea. |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 10:58am
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My March of 1964 dealer parts catalog catlaog has a section called Wheat Belt Equipment and says used only prior to Serial #42001. Looks like the enginering group pulled a part number for the wheel assembly that included the rim first the pulled a number for the RH and LH fender then later for the brackets, supports, step, and it lists dust shields. |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 11:24am
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I have seen what I would call original western tractors, if they were kit tractors the paint would possibly be a noticable difference as well as the hardware would likely not be painted. Also I have heard where dealers got old inventory westerns and converted them to row crop tractors. Does anybody have a 1959 sales price book? That will answer our questions.
Jim
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Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 1:12pm
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Jim I think the parts book answers our question. The package was not listed in kit
form like a dealer package. You would have had to purchase all the parts and hardware
individually. The package was not very well thought out for instance why waste the
money on a roll a shift front axle when the rear wheels are fixed? I cant't find a non
adjustable front axle in the D17 parts book. How about a narrow front wheat belt?
Also Jim do you have a listed serial number lower than 28200? The reason I ask is
they made 12,264 17's in 1958 and 11,052 in 1959 and only 4,543 17's when the
recession hit in 1960. I speculate the wheat belt project came about about to try strum
up some businees to account for the 63% loss in business. I know the engineering
department made massive improvements to the D14 about that time. I restored a late
D14 and it had more parts content with a D15 series 1 than the early 14's.
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Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 7:24pm
| Acutally I do have a few below that number including the one we own. I am not denying the fact that the western tractors were not available as a kit, but they have to had been available from the factory. If they were a kit, then the orchard, high crops and any other specialty would have been kits also. Also, if the dealer had to order a regular row crop tractor and convert it over which meant him taking off the fenders, wheels, tires and acquiring the kit hardware and tires there were would be alot less of them out there. Dealers are not going to go through all of that work to convert the tractor. |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 7:41pm
| Also, if there was a kit it would more than likely be listed in the wholegoods price book under "field installed" or "dealer installed" kits. Which can only be ordered through wholegoods not parts. For instance, you could not order a scourkleen from parts but you could order an installation kit from wholegoods. The parts books most of the time show a break down of the kit but not a number for the entirety. |
Posted By: norm [ind]
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 7:45pm
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i have 1960 price book will che ck to see if anything is listed when i get time
1-574-342-4545
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Posted By: Samncia
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 8:01pm
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My sept.26th 1959 price book says wheatland equipment is a factory substitution. The front tires rear tires fenders and rear drawbar had a list price of 570.00. There was a grove package with fenders shields andgrille guard that is listed as one of the field installations |
Posted By: Luke R.
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:06pm
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How does $18601 answer your question? I had a chance to buy a running gasser last year for just under 10 grand, maybe i should of bought it. ------------- 4-7030's,170G,220FWA,3-220's,210,D21II,D21I industrial,2-200's,3-190's,175D,2-D19D's,D19G,WD45,WD,CA,2-UCont.,5015FWA,917,B110,Gleaner F |
Posted By: dannyraddatz
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:08pm
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WOW in the last 60 seconds of bidding on the Allis Chalmers D17 Wheatland it went for $18,601.00. Must be nice to have that kind of cash flow. Danny
Item number:
 200430329761
Bidders:
10Bids:60Time Ended:Jan-24-10 19:04:05 PSTDuration:5 days
 This item has ended.
------------- Danny Raddatz |
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)Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:09pm
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I expected a good price, but that is unbelievable. If it is legit I expect a few gassers will be converted to LP in the near future. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 10:36pm
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WOW! I told Dad he should chain and lock his to the floor! Although it is a gas model. I do have records of two other LPs. Thanks Sam for confirming that it was a factory option. Although I have to eat my words about the grove equipment option! lol You would think that would have been a factory installed deal too. Jim Jim |
Posted By: acben20
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 11:29pm
| I thought I was going to get it i bid the $13,900 wow sure went for more than i thought. I gess I will have to be happy with the ones that i have for now. I think some people got bid happy. I also would have to say i bet some gas ones get made in to LP. I cant see paying that for one. this one didn't even run. and the wheels were wrong. If any one knows who got it I have a pair of rear wheels for it. BEN~!! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 12:52am
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I wonder what that makes my regular D17 propane worth?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 10:27am
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Guys here is a good example for AGCO that the orange heritage is alive and well! Eldon and Ben your right on in your thinking that some of the gas models will get converted
however the engine serial number would be a dead give away. All of the gassers will
have a "M" prefix in the engine number like D171234M while the LP engines will be a "V"
code in the engine serial like D171234V. The "V" stands for the high compression piston,
or as we often mistake around here the the 175 gas piston. Really we should say the 175 gas tractors used the D17 LP piston as that was the original application. This isn't fool proof of course as you could simply convert a regular D17 LP tractor and I'm sure there are a few G226 power units with the LP setup. Production records indicate that
only 120 out of 11052 D17 tractors for 1959 and 287 out of 4,543 D17 tractors for 1960 had the LP engine, so yes John I would think this would make your regular propane
value go up as well. Also LP owners the high compresion piston other than an M&W to my knowledge is only available through AGCO certainly not Tisco and some of other kits available out their and I'm sure since this owners was to tight to buy new tires for the rear he would have certainly put the wrong pistons in it. Most collectors would prefer a
locked up original to a budget overhaul job.
So Jim this would be the 3rd D17 western found. I wonder if you could email the seller
and get the engine serial number to? International Harvestor marketed a 460 wheatland
in this time frame also with limited production and I know they get big money for them to.
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Posted By: acben20
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 1:00pm
| no i think some will take the wheatland parts off a gas tractor and put them on a factory 1960 LP tractor. |
Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 10:39pm
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I'm wondering if the buyer wanted it mainly because it was a wheatland(western) D17 or because it was a western LP? Either way, it will be easy enough to put the western parts on a LP tractor like Ben said. Right now I have 25 accounted for in my registry, not including what Ben owns. Most of these are gas models, two were regular 17s with the parts put on them, seven are diesels and three are LPs. Ben if you would I would like to have your numbers to put in here. If anybody else has one that I dont know if I would like to hear about them! Sorry Mike, but I did not take any engine numbers. Thanks Jim |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 11:50pm
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uez2CrDqD94 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uez2CrDqD94 Here is a video of my neighbor's diesel version. |
Posted By: norm [ind]
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 7:53pm
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the western or wheatlands d-17 were ordered from factory as such
june 26/1960 price book SPECIAL EQUIPMENT
INCLUDES7.50-16[6PLY] FRONT AND18.4-28[6PLY] REAR TIRES ON NON-POWER ADJUSTED WHEELS,SPECIAL FENDERS AND HEAVY DUTY MAXIMUM SWINGING
DRAWBAR FOR 290886[GAS] --290890 [DIESEL ] 956 LBS. $575.00
MY CONTRIBUTION FROM MY OLD PRICE BOOK AS A SALESMAN
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Posted By: norm [ind]
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 8:04pm
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FROM MY JUNE 26/1960 PRICE BOOK WHEATLANDS WERE ORDERED BY THE DEALER AS SPEC IAL EQUIPMENT in cludes 7.50-16 6ply front tires and18.4-28 6ply
rear tires non power adjusted wheels special fenders and heavy duty maximum
swinging drawbar 956lbs. $575.00
my contribution for you young guys
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Posted By: DarrylinWA
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 9:03pm
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Jim Here is the serial numbers from Bob Vanderploegs 6 Wheatlands.
Restored Diesel is 29789D
Restored Gas 28571
Restored LP 28122
Original Mint Gas 25795
Need some work 29875D
Need some work 28712 LP with no motor.
Just got the serial numbers after work.
Take care, Darryl Krause in Lynden WA.
------------- B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling. |
Posted By: MikeB (SD)
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 9:51pm
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Wow Darryl the original mint gas model with the serial number 25795 if that's correct
could be very special, it is about 3,000 units earlier than all the rest. I wonder if Jim's recorded one earlier than that.
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Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 10:44pm
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Thanks Darryl but I already had his numbers down. As far as the oldest one I have written down is #25747. Sorry but I will not give out the location or owner of the tractor without the permission of the owner. Jim |