wd liners
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Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68483
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 2:35pm
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Topic: wd liners
Posted By: kniesshy
Subject: wd liners
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 8:54pm
| if we were to bore out a wd to a 4.5 bore, where would we get liners? anyone have a part number or know where to get them? thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 9:21pm
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You would buy them from Darton, LA Sleve or Power Bore. All are companies that make spun ductile or cast iron sleves. Figure up what you want for dimensions and they'll make anything you want. The longer the sleve, the less can be made from the blank casting so the more expensive they get. Ductile is better (stronger and longer wearing) than soft grey iron. I'd bet you're looking in the neighborhood of $125 or more per sleve to buy them. Putting them in a block is time consumeing. Then finish boreing and honeing. It's a safe bet to say $1000 or well more for sleves and machine work when done for a finished block. I usually make them from existing sleves from another engine. I turn the outside diameters to what I want, bore the block and then bore the inside and hone to finish. I'm tight when it comes to the antique tractors and used sleves from a diesel are hard, full of nickel, long wearing and hard on boreing bar bits. Your machinist will love boreing them for sure. Don't run to much press fit on the bottom counterbore or it'll split the block. I alwayse put the sleves in with a bit of a bonding agent like sleve retainer on the bottom counterbore and I put a little block filler in. Grout based fillers like Hard Block and the Moroso stuff are alright but are not water tight as they don't need to be. They are hard on tooling if machining the sleves out in the future. I like to use a fiber product from Competition Products called Roc Blok. It's not hard on tooling and is water tight and probablu a bit lighter than the grout based fillers. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2013 at 1:46pm
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I have blank liners 4.940 od 4.6875 when finished od for$ 96.91 a piece . You can pretty much bore with boring bar centered on original bore center just need to shim bar to move toward left intake side away from cam. 4.500 id sleeve would have a od of 4.753 and i can get a price from supplier if needed. When you get bigger on than 4.800 on the blocks bottom bore you have to start shifting bore center in 2 moves front and back along with side move. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 7:16am
How's that work Mitch, is it a Tn Vols thing? I've been around machine tools for over 40 years and if I ever shimmed a boring bar, the bore would get bigger not move sideways  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
mlpankey wrote:Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 7:26pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 8:02pm
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Paws??? I believe those are for cats and dogs Mitch. Boring bars I used over the years are either clamped in a tool holder on a lathe or clamped in a boring head and have 1 insert or cutting tool. You don't shim a boring bar to move the hole. You move your part in relation to the centerline of the sweep of the bar. Moving the bore sideways or for and aft has nothing to do with anything other than the relationship of the bore center to the original centerline. Size only matters because you can not bore a hole smaller than it was originally. I have bored holes from 3/8 of an inch to over 40 inches and the only time I shimmed a boring bar was if it wasn't on the centerline of the part in the holder I was using  You obviously have NO IDEA about doing machine work no matter what MBUCHARD thinks. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 8:29pm
well i am talking about a van norman or kwik way boring bar like this one pictured that have been around in machine shops I am going to guess since 1950 but I am not a machining historian so I could be wrong in the date. you can see a kwik way boring bar in this picture if you now what one looks like hint its not the mill or red tool box or hoist ,its right in front of the sign about leaving work unpaid for .URL=http://s738.photobucket.com/user/pankeyc/media/tractor%20parts/pics126.jpg.html] [/URL]
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 8:45pm
 ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 8:57pm
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It doesn't matter what kind of machine you use, to move the bore in a block, you have to either move the head or move the part. If you have to shim something, maybe it needed left in the 50's.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 9:06pm
Again Spunk proves that he has no experience running any machine. To move a bore in a block you move the part (block) in relation to the center line of the spindle of the milling device. Just as CTucker said. To make an eccentric hole in a part on a late you off set the part in relation to the center line of the spindle. Shimming the tool will not move the center line of a bore. Moving your quick way boring machine on the deck surface will move the hole in the block. Stick to turning the switch on and off at the balance machine, you seem to have succeeded with that operation.
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 9:09pm
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you shim the centering paws on one side to move the bore from its original bore center away from the camshaft toward the intake side of engine block so that when you install the larger diameter sleeves the camshaft will still go into the block without hitting the sleeves. here is the original statement you chose to cut and paste . maybe if you read it all in context you can see the way".You can pretty much bore with boring bar centered on original bore center just need to shim bar to move toward left intake side away from cam. 4.500 id sleeve would have a od of 4.753 and i can get a price from supplier if needed. When you get bigger on than 4.800 on the blocks bottom bore you have to start shifting bore center in 2 moves front and back along with side move." ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: THE-MAN
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 6:27am
| I believe the word you are searching for is PAWL, Pank . |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 7:43am
Hillbilly Ebonics: My paw paw never taught me what the pawl was and I ain't smarts enough to use google. |
Posted By: cranky
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 8:14am
| there is some confusion of boring bars. boring bars or machines in engine shops utilize three expanding fingers to center bore to existing hole.many times by shimming one or two of the fingers we can reposition new hole to clear any wear marks, or to provide additional clearance in this case. |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 8:24am
No, that is the centering tool, then a boring bar usually with a carbide insert is installed at whatever radius desired to cut desired bore diameter. There is a difference between finding center and a boring bar. |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 7:10pm
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Those are the same pictures the keyboard commando has been posting since he was looking for someone to stroke a crank and thanking all those he hired to do the machine work. Do you pay double rate to the shops if they let you take pictures Jealous Mitch? ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2013 at 7:11pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6cxJCkhx_c" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6cxJCkhx_c . not my vid but for the ones with no clue it gives a idea. of how the paws or center fingers work. thanking everyone that helps out on my builds is courtesy .Its hard to own everything needed to do every custom build so when one loans you a deck plate or tooling or lets you use their equipment i thank them ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 12:12am
| Did Ray give you that advise about machine work, or does he just order your parts? |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2013 at 9:23am
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he ordered pistons for a client i am building a engine for . He quoted a price cheaper than mine. If you knew anything about a engine building shop you would know that a lot of small shops come together to help with the tools by loaning for a specific style or brand of engine and parts cost as well . Ray selling pistons to client is no different than him going to barnett or nichols or straight through piston manufacturers e net sale. Ray built a small allis engine last year I didn't not do any work on but did get asked for some ideas from him. The trade of allis knowledge for john deere a style build knowledge is expanding my shop in tn and his in sc with allis . its that simple . A machinist with the fabricating skills as i realizes that a sleeve wall is 1/8 inch thick with a 4.750 id has a od of 5.003 a sleeve with a od of 5.003 with the wall thickness of 3/32 puts you right to the bore size that i say is possible as long as the fabricator can figure out how to hold a straight wall sleeve without a step in place. You can use the method Jack did on the 4 11/16 bore which makes for a through away block if anything happens to the sleeve bore or you can do as i where sleeves can be removed but still is held solid without sinking as some with to small a step do . No brags just facts unlike most that utilize this chat room ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |