Farm Equipment - CRAP NEED A IDEA

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CRAP NEED A IDEA

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6682
Printed Date: 16 Jan 2025 at 7:46am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: CRAP NEED A IDEA

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Subject: CRAP NEED A IDEA
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 3:24pm

OK so Im replacing the headgasket on the 7040 and I start to retorque the head and start at 90 then 110 then I try to get to 165 according to the book 1st off besides being scary hard to try to get to 165 my wors fear happens a head bolt number 2 on the pattern breaks off!!!!!! so now IM screwed in a few ways 1st am I stuck with that one bolt trying to tap it out or is there a way I can work around that bread and let the other 25 bolts do there job??? next I am likely going to replace head bolts as I dont need any trouble are the head bolts grade 5 8 or 10???? next question if I have to try to drill and easy out that other head bolt am I now out a 135 dollar head gasket that we worked so hard to get just right??? last question is 165 foot pds really how far I need to go I mean come on semi cummins accoring to my one spec book only go to 150????? I really dont want to break any more bolts off....

Replies:

Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 3:46pm

My book calls for 150 LBS. I have taken a long bolt or shaft and drill it thru (long enough to touch the broken bolt and stick above the head about an inch) ,stick it against the broken piece,use a super missile welding rod, insert it thru the bolt or rod and have someone to turn the welder on for a short. The broken piece usualy comes out easy.

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"Burgie"

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 3:49pm

I thought 165 seemed too high thats what this stupid book here is calling for... I dont quite understand the extraction part but do want to try a way that doesnt involve me removing the head and ruining a brand new gasket..

Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 3:52pm

Give me a call 812-752-2522.

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"Burgie"

Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 4:31pm

Burgie's got the right idea. Find a peice of steel tubing that will fit through the bolt hole, so you don't weld anything to the head itself or the block. Stick that rod down through there. (Rockmount makes a stud-plus rod just for this). Get someone to turn on the welder.(really high setting). You should be able to fuse the rod, the tubing, and the broken stud together. The whole mess should screw out then. The boken part isn't what is tight, that part should screw out real easy. I would get all new head bolts, since you're going to 150 Lb/ft.

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 4:49pm

OK we are going to do a few thimgs first we are building the fixture like you said my friend is a mechanical engineer and a mechanic. we are building the fixture to go into the hole and we will use a drill to drill out the broke piece in order to try a custome easy out if that dont work welding rod it is.... Everyone of my friends is like why are there 256 head bolts>?????

Posted By: BLee Mn
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 4:59pm

I always replace head bolts, that also seems like a big jump from 110 to 165 foot lbs

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Cowboy UP

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 5:02pm

are those bolts grade 5 or 8???

Posted By: Chuck(ONT)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 5:35pm

If you got that one down to 165 before breaking, or if you got any others to 165#, you may need another head gasket anyways.

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 7:11pm

That was like the 2nd bolt we only got one other down to there they are all sitting at 130 now once I get that other bolt outta there Ill torque them all in a pattern down to 150 but Ill do it in 10 pd increments Ya that was the first thing we did was to make sure we left all of the bolts torqued to the same pds... what a pain all because of a stupid wrong setting in a book..... I thought 165 seemed high I should have checked it out more instead of trusting the book.

Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 7:57pm

Check your torque wrench too. I did the same thing to a rod bolt in my 301 this summer. It was an inaccurate torque wrench. Also, oil the threads and under the head of the bolts. Check the other ones for any signs of stretching (as in they are necking usually around where the threads start and the shank ends). If you had an inaccurate torque wrench, you could very well have stretched at least the one that didn't break. I really doubt you stretched the other ones, as I don't see a torque wrench being that inaccurate.

Hurst

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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 8:09pm

thought about the torque wrench and so I checked it with another one at 130pds both clicked the same I oiled lightly the threads too my friend whos dad used to deal in ACs said he thought he remembered a bulletin years ago changing the torque to 150 from 165 because of broken head bolts.... Everyone I talked to thought one 26 head bolts seemed excessive as my compression is 16:1 and two 165 foot pounds was nuts I had a hell of a time cranking it that far an the two I got to get there!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: weiner43
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 9:23pm

I done that once on a B head, but was lucky enough to drill the broken stud and back it out with an easy out.

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God bless our troops and the United States of America.

Pick your rut well, you may be in it a long time.

Posted By: Dave A
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 9:30pm

Lawson products sells a welding rod for this. How it works is you set a nut over the busted bolt weld down through the center of the nut. after it cools, you remove the nut and it leaves enough of a stub to turn out the broken stud. When welding the rod flux shealds the bolt threads so they don't get messed up.

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Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game.
Winston Churchill

Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 9:44pm

These head bolts are grade 100, some are 95. Don't go less than 165 LB they will take it.

If the threads are clean, it should come right out. MACK

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 9:55pm

Grade 100 holy hell where do I get one of those?????? Any ideas why this one here broke just old etc????

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 10:04pm

OK which is it Ive got one book says 165 and my friends and another gentelmens say 150 which shall I do 165 or 150???

Posted By: Bob(FL)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 10:23pm

I would say that the bolt just streched and broke so the piece in the block should not be that tight like it got stuck and broke off, you might try a left hand drill bit might catch and back out.

Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2010 at 10:49pm

MACK is an AC guy who has worked on plenty of these 426's.I'd trust his advice.You did clean all bolt holes before installing head,right? My AC manual isn't here to see what it says for torque(8010-8070).Ten pound increments will not work well at higher end of range.20 would be better.

Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 8:48am

The older service manual (D21-220) said 150, but later it was increased to 165. I torque bolts to 60-120- then 165. The number on the head is the grade of the bolt and the bolt will stand more if they are good. Your Agco dealer have them or can get them. MACK

Posted By: archangel_cpj
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 12:29pm

OK Im at 120 now so Ill bump them up and split the diff and go 120 - 140 then 140 up to 160 then Ill pop up the last 5 lbs ya cleaned the holes and like the book said put just a couple drops oil on them and before the install used the air gun to do a final blow out of the holes I wonder if trying to go from 110 to 160 was too much??????

Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 12:40pm

Good bolt should take the increments you gave it at first.Might be cheaper in the end to replace all bolts.

Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 6:42pm

I'd throw out the old bolts and get new head bolts from AGCO. They may actually be ARP's. AGCO rod bolts for 426 engines are stamped ARP. Been there and done that on two D-21's. Neighbour had a head gasket fail on a D-19 diesel work tractor. He threw out the old bolts and ordered ARP's directly from ARP. They sent the wrong ones twice but finially got it right. Since this is a big weak point on the D-19 diesel's, hopefull the ARP's will solve the problem.

Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2010 at 6:49pm

The government sent me through a elaborate torquing school . If I came away with anything from it . It was that a beam style torque wrenches would be all that stayed in my home and garage tool boxes . If the pointer points to 0 when no torque is applied its within tolerance if it isnt bend it so it does then its in tolerance . If you have a snap wrench it takes a high dollar machine to find the accuracy tolerance of the wrench. remember fine threads can stand more torque than coarse on the same grade bolt also lube the threads and nut flat before torquing .

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