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226 overbore sleves

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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65492
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Topic: 226 overbore sleves
Posted By: wi50
Subject: 226 overbore sleves
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 1:21pm
I have a couple sets of sleves made up to sell.  They are made to light press fit in a W 201 -226 block with no o-ring. 
 
I typically put the block in my blast cabinet and blast it clean, but if you don't have access to a blaster, clean the top and bottom counterbores.  Put a little sleve retainer around the bottom counterbore and knock the sleves in.  I put an inch or so of a fiber block filler with for extra insurance that the water will stay where it is supposed to. The fiber filler isn't hard on tooling if the block gets bored in the future.  One could bore the sleve out, or heat it and drive them back out. 
 
Once installed the sleves need to be bored, honed and the block decked.  Usually 4.25 to 4.28 bore.  Lots of automotive application pistons available in these bore sizes depending on your rod and crank combo.
 
Set 1 is made from nice take out 426 Allis liners, 4.25 bore without much wear, I think with instalation and honeing, one could run a 4.25 piston. $250 shipped
 
Set 2 is made from some worn 404 Deere liners, 4.25 bore and would need to be bored to 4.265 or larger to clean up. $200 shipped.
 
I'll send some fiber block filler with them.
 
The bottom counterbore in the Allis block is 4.475" so one could go to a 4.3 bore depending on how thin you want the sleve hanging in the crankcase.
 
Marty 715-790-1869


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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"



Replies:
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 1:36pm
Run a bead of weld up the sleeve. Sleeve will do as any metal does when welded and draw. Making interference fitted sleeves easier to remove when needing replaced. If the interference is correct and the block and sleeves have been through heat cycles to draw the slewve to what it would be at operating temperatures and decked. Then the sleeve shouldnt need any thing but the interference fit to hold water in the block. The. Block filler isnt designed to stop leaks its designed to give rigidity to the block.jmho

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 3:30pm
For those of you with common sense, and measureing skills, you could measure the bottom counterbores and find that they are never the same.  They didn't have to be as the O-rings took care of it.  Then add years of soaking in crud and corrosion and you'll find it's impossiable to make a sleve to press fit perfectly in them.  To much pressure and the block splits, to little and they leak.  Make them a light press fit, put a little sleve retainer on the bottoms with everything cleaned up and you have a good seal.
 
Grout based block fillers will wick water, I hate them.
 
Fiber based are 100% water tight.  The block filler I use on everything is RocBlok from Competition Products in Oshkosh Wi.  They claim it to be 100% water tight and that's what I've found.  I love this stuff, it doesn;t hurt tooling when cutting into it, it's light and verry high temperature resistance.  I've got filled cylinder heads holding up to exhaust temperatures against the stuff. I've got cylinder heads half full of the stuff and circulating water on top to cool while the port is cut through into the filler below.  It's a good way to get around the constraints of original castings when porting and keep some water circulating.  It's cheap at about $50 per 25 pounds.


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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"


Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 3:32pm
Set 2 is sold
 
thank you


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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 3:55pm
If they are never the same then the sleeve would need to be sized to the individual bore or the bore bored to be 2 thou smaller than the individual sleeve. If we were using common sense your two sets wouldnt have sold.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:11am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Run a bead of weld up the sleeve. Sleeve will do as any metal does when welded and draw. Making interference fitted sleeves easier to remove when needing replaced. If the interference is correct and the block and sleeves have been through heat cycles to draw the slewve to what it would be at operating temperatures and decked. Then the sleeve shouldnt need any thing but the interference fit to hold water in the block. The. Block filler isnt designed to stop leaks its designed to give rigidity to the block.jmho


That's a line of bull $***. Welding is alright on a dry sleve, the block is strong and supports the whole sleve. The AC wet sleve block is likely to break with that much concentrated heat.

It looks like that block filler is water tight. Pankey's stories are the only thing leaking here. Do some research and shut up.

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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 9:03pm
Nope it dont break the block. Trying to drive them out witbout shrinking them creates greater stress than shrinking the sleeve by welding a bead up them does.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2013 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by wi50 wi50 wrote:

For those of you with common sense, and measureing skills, you could measure the bottom counterbores and find that they are never the same.  They didn't have to be as the O-rings took care of it. 


That sure leaves out the TVA nuclear mechanic

And for the pankster, tolerances cost money, the closer they are the more they cost. Allis didn't need to hold a close tolerance on the bottom bore because as stated, it has an O-RING OH never mind, you wouldn't be able to figure it out anywayWacko



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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 5:36pm
If i had watch martys wc steam engine pulls that. he posted on you tube .i would run from his sleeves and sleeve instalations. They is enough steam out the exhaust pipe at the end of the dieing runs to blow a train whistle.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 5:48pm
 Charlie, Your portrait of homer panky is priceless, .... but now now I have to blow my nose, and clean the Miller Hi-Life from my keyboard and desk..........


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

If i had watch martys wc steam engine pulls that. he posted on you tube .i would run from his sleeves and sleeve instalations. They is enough steam out the exhaust pipe at the end of the dieing runs to blow a train whistle.

So if his sleeve leaked, the coolant ran down in the oil and boiled out the exhaust? Confused You're just too much Homer, I mean Spanky.


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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 6:28pm
D'OH!

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Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while.


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 6:50pm
i think he will try to tell you it was the moroso crankcase scavenger fixed in the exhaust . but i ran them on a rear engine dragster with the headrs straight over the slicks and never oiled or wet the slicks from running them .

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 9:06pm
You think the oil got hot enough to steam the water in 330 feet? Of course if you were paying that close of attention you'd hear the announcer say he only needed to go 270 to win.

Where's your video pankey?

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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 9:11pm
Winning by 60 feet is like looseing by 100 feet, it seperates someone from the pack. Wi can win by 60 while pankey looses by 100. We have now seen evidence by video and records from both these guys on this forum. Wi winning by a long distance and pankey looseing by a much longer distance.



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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Winning by 60 feet is like looseing by 100 feet, it seperates someone from the pack. Wi can win by 60 while pankey looses by 100. We have now seen evidence by video and records from both these guys on this forum. Wi winning by a long distance and pankey looseing by a much longer distance.



But, Rod We all know Spunky can't add an subtract. Look up a few posts... Measuring skills, important while building an engine and pulling the sled :) 


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 9:45am
i just heard the anouncer say he had water issues . that dont say much about the competition in the area if you can beat them with a blown head gasket but then again if martys doing all the engines of the competitors then they probably have more stuff wrong than he does.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 10:30am
What do you edit in your posts Panks? I bet it's over fifty percent that you edit. I bet you take all the periods out. 


Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 10:38am
you guys need to play nice with my boss


Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 11:04am
$hit runs downhill. If he's your boss, whats that make you? I bet they think the same of Pank at your job as everyone else thinks of him on here. I highly doubt he's your boss. I would believe that you work with him, and Probably don't like him either.

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Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while.


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 12:06pm
He is better than you unstylish.he can figure out when someones selling wornout sleeves from one engine as good sleeves for another.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 12:35pm
he is a well respected forman here at work i enjoy working for him. he is more than fair and has a great working knowlage of the nuclear plant


Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 12:55pm
Hahah spunky found some dumb snail under the rock which he lives to post good things about him.

Spunk? How is selling sleeves machined to fit one block an different than using international pistons in an Allis?

You're just too damn jealous you don't have the mechanical ability or creativity to build anything worth a damn or come up some new functional way to get a job done.


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 1:19pm
I was talking with a fellow engine builder yesterday and he said that i and wi shoul get together as a team we could build a heck of a allis cause he knew i could keep the water in the radiator and out of the exhaust . he said wi just was wanting to coin the allis building market and i was in his way and that the way to get rid of me was taking pot shots with his flunkys . I replied I dont play with snotty nosed kids . he said to bad for wi .  

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

I was talking with a fellow engine builder yesterday and he said that i and wi shoul get together as a team we could build a heck of a allis cause he knew i could keep the water in the radiator and out of the exhaust . he said wi just was wanting to coin the allis building market and i was in his way and that the way to get rid of me was taking pot shots with his flunkys . I replied I dont play with snotty nosed kids . he said to bad for wi .  


Yeah yeah I'm sure that's exactly how that convo went.... How can you say "fellow engine builder" that means you would have to be an engine builder. You're an engine destroyer.


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 2:18pm
Your not pushing the envelope if your not finding the stress thresholds.


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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2013 at 2:36pm
Mitch the only envelope you ever pushed was sanity and self respect. You sound like nothing more than a typical largemouth union whore who thinks he knows something. I've seen your type. There is no arguing with a person who lies to himself, especially as much as you must. You've lost the battle, every time. Somewhere inside you must realize that. Does it bother you just a wee bit, that you make yourself out to look like a fool? Well as your ego increases, it must. Bouchard, I think you are a fake. You obviously don't know much if you side with Pank. But then again, I'm sure no one is surprised .

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Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while.


Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 7:01am
Pankey's to dumb to rember one of his old arguments and lies once again. If he had any intelligence he'd rember that wi told him it couldn't be the head gasket leaking because there's no water in that engine block and the head is plugged so there's no water at the face of the head.

No supprise the idiot can't even keep his lies and arguments straight. Don't you rember seing the pictures? You should because you wasted several days getting your a$S kicked around in that argument too.

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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 8:07am
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Pankey's to dumb to rember one of his old arguments and lies once again. If he had any intelligence he'd rember that wi told him it couldn't be the head gasket leaking because there's no water in that engine block and the head is plugged so there's no water at the face of the head.

No supprise the idiot can't even keep his lies and arguments straight. Don't you rember seing the pictures? You should because you wasted several days getting your a$S kicked around in that argument too.
  having all that compression in the crankcase to blow enough oil into the exhaust to cool the exhaust to blow white smoke isnt good either.  blow by is never a good thing

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 8:48am
The only blow by here is you spunky.   ... Or is that blowhard? Either way...


Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 9:02am
let me get this straight in pankey logic.
 
#1.  was water leaking past the sleves into the oil getting so hot in 15 seconds that it was turned to steam and sucked out the exhaust.
 
#2.  was a leaking head gasket, leaking water into the cylinders.  But there is no water at the head gasket and the engine is a dry block.
 
#3.  excessive blowby that waits untill the end of a run to appear.  Continues when the engine is at idle and cylinder pressure is low.  This doesn't make sense either.
 
What will # 4 guess be?  A magic Genie?  Make a wish spankey!!!! maybe she'll give you a brain so you can think before postingCry
 
 
Well it's # 4
 
 It is oil smoke.  The crankcase breather was hooked to a plug I made that fit in the oil fill hole on the old magneto drive.  Timeing gears would sling oil up at the hose, the crankcase evacuater would eventually pull some oil up the hose and into the exhaust stream.  It took a little time, hence my magic Genie would only appear after 12-15 seconds. 
 
I didn't want to hook the crankcase evacuater in the valve cover, it may hold excessive oil on the head and in the lifter galley.  Rember (again for the village idiot) the old 201 blocks were solid on the bottom of the lifter rail with the oil return hole in the front.  Unlike the 226 blocks that had wide open holes in between some of the lifter bores.  I suppose I could have knocked a hole in the block somewhere else and made a fitting, but that extra oil filler hole that needed to be plugged anyway was a handy place to hook a hose to.
 
It's simple physics explained once again for "jealous mitch".  High velocity exhaust gasses cause a decrease in pressure when passing an orfice.  That orfice is hooked to a hose to pull a vacuume on the crankcase to help seal rings and evacuate any pressure.  Oil is pulled up the tube after time and when combined with hot exhaust gasses a magic Genie appears. 
 
Please try and rember this "jealous mitch".  I explained it to you long ago and you were to dumb to understand it then as you have proven you are now.  Not learning even basic physics and jumping to conclusions will never get you verry far.


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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 9:05am

your engine was stalling rpms was lowering . thats when suck back occurs



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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 9:20am
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=749047&start=15&postdays=0&postorasc&highlight=der=" rel="nofollow - http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=749047&start=15&postdays=0&postorasc&highlight=der=
 
 
A little proof that you covered this before but to dumb to rember.


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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"


Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 10:57am
Ha ha. Busted again pankey.

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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2013 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

<FONT style=": #000000">your engine was stalling rpms was lowering . thats when suck back occurs



No idiot, thats when a plug wire falls off. Wi makes more power on three cylinders than your tractor will on four.


Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2013 at 5:28am
http://crossroadsofdixie.com/06pullresults.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://crossroadsofdixie.com/06pullresults.aspx

He's only 50 feet behind in the stock classes with his hot rod. Better than being 100 feet behind in the outlaw class.

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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2013 at 8:24am
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

http://crossroadsofdixie.com/06pullresults.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://crossroadsofdixie.com/06pullresults.aspx

He's only 50 feet behind in the stock classes with his hot rod. Better than being 100 feet behind in the outlaw class.
august 2006 rod we broke the 1.75 crank  at that pull still in the money with thrid place even with a broken crankshaft.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2013 at 8:28am
so wi why want you tell them why your moroso scavnege system blows oil when the one one my dragster never blew oil on the slicks you can put that in the post hidden with carburator formulas . Since your so good at answering and posting truthful info lol sarcasism .

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2013 at 8:55am
And I thought spankster couldn't get any dumber.

2011 results have nothing to do with broken cranks in 2006. In a class of 3 people 3rd isn't bad. 50 feet behind the winner is though.

I'm no mastermind but wi already explained why the evac pulled oil. It's not hidden in any sarcasm. The answer is plain as day in his post above. It was plumbed close to the timeing gears spraying oil at the hose.

Not being able to understand that is about as smart as argueing the same point and haveing it explained to you once. Only to spend a few days takeing random pot shots at the same thing again. Read the link dummy.

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for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers


Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2013 at 8:56am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

so wi why want you tell them why your moroso scavnege system blows oil when the one one my dragster never blew oil on the slicks you can put that in the post hidden with carburator formulas . Since your so good at answering and posting truthful info lol sarcasism .


Can you read??   Seven posts above It was explained in full detail, you brain dead idiot.


Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2013 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

so wi why want you tell them why your moroso scavnege system blows oil when the one one my dragster never blew oil on the slicks you can put that in the post hidden with carburator formulas . Since your so good at answering and posting truthful info lol sarcasism .
 
 
Your dragster never blew oil on the slicks for several reasons.
 
1, no one is dumb enough to blow the exhaust on the tires of a dragster.  It's just not commonly accepted practice and can lead to unforseen negative events.  Like useing rice and cane tires on a pulling tractor, or verry soft light connecting rods.
 
2.  Your dragsters scavenge system was hooked to the valve covers, because that's where the directions told you to hook it to.  There's plenty of room in that engine to return the oil to crankcase as well as pull some air from crankcase, unlike the 201 Allis block which I explained earlier.
 
3.  Because of the fireing order of a V8, the collector diameter is often verry large.  A large collector diameter slows the velocity of the exhaust down but it is necessary as the time between exhaust pulses is less.  An inline 4 cyl can benifit from a verry small exhaust collector diameter diameter, there's a full 180* of crankshaft rotation between exhaust pulses giveing the exhaust plenty of time to exit.  Thus a verry high velocity exhaust stream can pull more vacuume on a single hose than a V8 can pull on 2.... Though I don't expect you to be able to understand this concept.
 
4.  Your dragster as fictitious like your hot rod pulling tractor, it doesn't exist.  When it did it performed poorly. 
 
My shop windows are dirty if you wish to come and lick them, I'll be here the rest of the winter.   


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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2013 at 5:38pm
Dragster swept headers with moroso pumps run right over dragster tires. The reason they didnt blow oil onto tires is ring seal.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: SuperM74
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2013 at 9:10pm
I think i have the same dragster Spanky has....... Is yours a Hot Wheels or Matchbox Spanky?

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You can't make chicken salad, outta chicken sh*t! Proof's in the pudding!


Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 8:11am
Nope but i do have your m farmall i drag it around with my wd before pulls to make sure everytbing is pull ready on thw wd.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra



Posted By: SuperM74
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 10:39am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

Nope but i do have your m farmall i drag it around with my wd before pulls to make sure everytbing is pull ready on thw wd.
 
Sorry Spanky, i don't own a Farmall M. The only Farmall i own is a 1456... So you bring your WD up and try to drag it around. Then when you get your stupid butt back to Tennessee, you can get back on here and tell everybody how that worked out for you! LMAO! I am buliding a WC to pull with, and i have talked to WI50 about it several times. He seems very knowledgeable about engines, something i wouldn't dare say about you. All i have seen you do is talk, Marty posted a video of a very strong running WC and i will say it's quite impressive..... It by far out ranks your tape measure photo.


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You can't make chicken salad, outta chicken sh*t! Proof's in the pudding!


Posted By: patrickmull
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 10:57am
amen  superM74



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