gleaner E in wd
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60388
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Topic: gleaner E in wd
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Subject: gleaner E in wd
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 10:22pm
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i see alot of references to gleaner e engines in wd's for pulling. just wondering why, what is so different and could a wd engtine just be built to "E" specs. would this setup be legal in the avberage "farm stock" classes? ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Replies:
Posted By: D21Puller
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 10:59pm
| The E engine has larger mains and typically a full pressure oiling system. To make the E engine work in a W series tractor you have to drill the holes larger on the tractor water pump and shorten the engine crank or enlarge the hole all the way through on the tractor crank pulley.governor springs must be changed also for optimum speed. |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 11:19pm
| Tougher blocks, head design is slightly different too I think, can't remember for sure. WD-45 water pump, front pulley, and front cover, and valve cover unless you put a WD-45 distributor housing on it will oil fill. "Legal" hard to say, its the same engine, just updated. Have ran mine for 4 years no troubles yet. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 12:05am
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The combine governer is probably better than the tractor governer. There's less "droop" in the combine governer. There's different governer linkage in the front cover also. It either needs to be added from a tractor front cover, or change the cover. Like said above the crank needs to be cut off a bit or the pulley bored through. There's also a difference in the location of the locateing hole for the pulley. The fan belt will be slightly out of allignment without makeing a new divit in the crank. I don't rember what the distance is but measure from a crank gear to the divit on a tractor crank but it's different on the combine crank. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 10:13am
| I don't remember having any issues with the crank and pulley on mine, believe I put one and and ran it, no messing around. It was a lot easier getting a different front cover then messing around with linkages. Also you have to grind a lil off the framrail so it doesn't rub on the governor casting of the block. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 10:48am
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I'll show ya the difference sometime when you're over. It's pretty minute. The only reason I found it was because I was comparing some locations when machining a crank pulley and relocateing some holes. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 11:50am
| Ohh. Alright, wait a minute, I remember now, it is different, instead of moving the pulley on the crank I had my buddy size a thick washer on the lathe to fit behind the water pump pulley to bring the pulley ahead, that was easier to do. Drilled four holes in it and it works great! |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 8:38am
| Carl by any chance do yoy remember the thicknes of the washer. |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 10:11pm
| I wanna say 1/4", don't remember for sure though, sorry. |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 10:03pm
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so then the "E" is a 201? and doesnt make any more hp than a wd engine just is going to take the abuse better? ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 10:16pm
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E Gleaner eng is a 226 and on the side will be the serial number M or Z code on most. Z was 8 to 1 comp ratio and m was 7.75 if I rember correctly. The d-17 and E engines had larger main berrings than the earlier 226. The block is heavier, dowl pinned main berring caps. Cam was slightly different. Full filteration oiling. Cylinder head has some slight variations. Cam/oil pump gears were different to drive the pump faster. I read here that the later cranks were treated but I don't know for sure. All good points for a srtonger longer lasting engine. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 10:22pm
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around here most of the farm stock pulls require factory block or factory replacement so i'm guessing to use an e it would need to be in a wd45 unless there are no outside differences compared to a 201 and one could slide by ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 10:22pm
| Thanks carl I'll have to check it out im working on putting a e engine into my unstyled wc . |
Posted By: D21Puller
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 10:30pm
| I tried using the E crank pulley when i put one in a wc to play with, the pulley wont clear the lower radiator neck, so you must use the w series engine pulley. The e water pump is also taller therefor the fan blades will not fit the radiator or shroud. Take the w series pump and enlarge the bolt holes. Used to be easy to find a cheap E engine and made for a reasonable bolt together power upgrade. Now in our area a E gleaner is awful hard to find even in the boneyards. |
Posted By: cotncrzy
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 7:35am
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Chances are you will need a rebuild anyway, why not a D 17 engine? Basically the same. The combine engines are very rare, our local salvage yard has one, it has the Z code. $400 and is locked up! I bought my combine engine there and heard it run, very pricey. I could have bought an engine out of a D 17 for half that much. I was still learning LOL! I changed out the gov. pistons, etc. unless there is a cam difference I could have saved several coins. ------------- C, WD45,WD puller, 185, 200, 7060 Red Belly, 7060 Black Belly,8010, and a R52 Gleaner, AND PROUD OF THEM! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 6:42am
| The official story goes like this (from a Veteran Antique Puller and retired AC dealer). At some point in time (maybe 40 years ago?) if you needed a brand new gas engine block for a WC-WD or WD45, you were told the P/N's subbed up to a D17 block and crankshaft. Of course, no one in their right mind would ever do that, they just found a used block or engine from a WC-WD or WD45 and got on with life. Anyway, that is why you see many pulling tractors with a newer D17 engine......it was considered a replacement for the original. |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 8:53pm
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i know i'm asking alot of questions here but please bear with me...i'm trying to "build" this puller in my head to come up with some options and some sort of parts list. the d-17 seems like it would be the way to go but given that it already makes about 20 more horses are you guys doing much to them as far as parts swaps? also i thing i saw that a few of the antique pulls around here cut off at 56? so looks like a wc or wd any thoughts on which is better? ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:13pm
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Depends on what weight you want to run ill say this ive took are d17 into are club pulls. To run with most those farmall m's you will need 38" rubber be pulling in 4500 and up and you'll need to build the engine up to compete a wc or wd you could make 3500 easy 3000lb with a wc is possible with a combine engine or 17 engine In the wc or wd with 38 inch tires youll be hard to beat in 3 or 3.5mph class |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:25pm
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i'm just getting real tired of all green and red at the local pulls ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:55pm
| Yea i know that feeling i went to our county fair one year i was the only allis there i stuck out like a sore thumb. If i ever get the money id like to build a strocked engine and put it in a 17 so i could try and give the red and green guys something to complain about lol. |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 4:47pm
Find my post about my puller titled "successful and reliable WD puller" on there is everything I've done to it. Works real well. |
Mrgoodwrench wrote:Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 8:56pm
i have read this post and that is some good info but at this point my "puller" is totally theoretical considering i don't even have the tractor yet or the extra funds to start buying parts. i like to over plan this type of thing, i'm looking for the best balance of low cost and still be somewhat competative. i'm kinda leaning towards thinking the d17 would require less mods to get going. anyone running this setup? are you changing pistons. of course a barney taylor cam and worked carb will help but i'll probably start stock. anyone dyno a "E" flat top piston setup?,do they make moer power than a stock d17. ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 9:25pm
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If you built a W201 to G226 V code specs you could do very well in the short burst that pulling requires, compared to plowing at full throttle all day. But the oiling system should be improved if only thru adding a new spring and a shim or three to the releif valve, and be sure to replace the cam bearings as they play a major role in W engine oil pressure.
A V code engine is equivelent to a D17 LP , or 175 gas engine, look at the nebraska tests for the particulars, but it is the highest rated G226 the factory built. My D17 in my avatar had a V code and I never wanted for more power, just better track conditions. Until you are pulling in 4mph class's with cut tires allowed you should be satisfied. All that you need for an economical build is 175 pistons, a WD45 crank and a reground cam to 175 specs as far as internals,as far as the head a good valve grind , a 175 manifold and carb , and I would add a pertronix, that completes the mods for most class's. Minor tweeks to timing, carb adjustment, sparkplug selection and sparkplug indexing are up to you. I consider these mods the best staring point , if your budget, traction and class rules allow, open your checkbook, and go for it.
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Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 2:08pm
I wish I woulda built a D17 rather then a WD, be really nice to have the Power Director at my finger tips, but what's done is done. I dynoed mine, but after I put the cam in, so its hard to give you accurate numbers. Peak HP was 62, rated was 52, but with 485ft lbs of torque. It was 115 ft lbs over my strongest stock WD-45.
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 2:22pm
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G226 block with a minimum of 5.8 to 61/4 stroke if it runs on three cylinders it will make nore than 62 hp and not need a power director just fast gears. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 4:31pm
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d17 would be nice but might jump the budget alot...seeps you can find wc/wd's pretty reasonable with a stuck engine. also might not be allowed in some local "antique pulls with a cut of 1956/57 and some won't let you pull the pd after you start moving. pankey...i know i wont be able to find the budget for a stroker quite yet...that'll have to wait for later after i get the hang of competing. right now leaning towards a wc/wd with a d-17 engine and 38's in 3.5 mph 3500-4000 class ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 6:11pm
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I understand budget. I also know that they are some cranks out there that are budget friendly. With main bearings running two hundred its not a cheap motor to build. So the cubic inches and free horsepowee cubes bring it becones a cheap bang for the most buck.I like big motors and i can not lie when a deep exhuast note sounds by. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 6:15pm
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whatever engine i end up with i'd consider offset grinding if the crank needed done or might look at stroker cranks but i assume custom stoke means custom pistons ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 7:13pm
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Actually depending on the rod and compression ratio along with the bore size you choose. You can find automotive shelf pistons to fit. Like a 413 chrysler or shorter comp.height ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |