Quieter Muffler for D17 IV
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=54409
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Topic: Quieter Muffler for D17 IV
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Subject: Quieter Muffler for D17 IV
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 9:39am
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Last year when I picked up our D17 IV gas, I bought a new muffler for it off EBay. I forget what brand it was, but they sold them as "A&I" or something. Anyway, as I've gotten the tractor in better shape and am using it longer hours, I realize the muffler is really loud, and with poor sound. It has a high pitched, raspy tinny sound to it that is really unpleasant after more than a few hours of use. Are there better quality mufflers out there that don't make the 17 sound like a chain saw? I was thinking about taking the dimensions down to NAPA and seeing if I could match it up with a truck muffler or something. I don't want it to sound like a Lincoln Continental or anything - or if I do then I'll want a chauffeur to do the brush hogging. But something a little quieter would be welcome. Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 9:44am
| Can't beat the original Nelson for quiet.Don't know if still available but i think they require a 2nd mortgage to purchase. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 10:19am
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That is probably a Stanley muffler that you have - A&I sells them (and most everyone else). They are known for their terrible, tinny sound - I have one on my D17 IV as well. Nelson mufflers originally came with the tractors, but trying to find a new one will be rather difficult, but if you do find one it will cost you plenty. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 12:55pm
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I just called one my suppliers for the "Walker" cross-over models, I think you would be happy with them. He's calling some out-of-state warehouse's to locate, will keep you posted.
There is 2 models, up to Ser # 32001, and 32001-42000, do you have your ser. #? Gas or Diesel? 3.25" round or 4.25" round or Oval???
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Posted By: Mosin9130
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 1:06pm
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What is the "Walker" cross-over model and what does it look like? I too have a D17 IV that I want to replace the muffler on and don't want to be stuck with a bad muffler. ------------- '56 WD 45...'63 D15 II...'66 D17 IV |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 1:25pm
| Your D17/IV has oval, Walker NLA, sorry. Nelson/fleetguard NLA, I could have bought some last year when available, now gone. Only shot is finding one kickin' around some warehouse maybe from sounds of it. |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 1:45pm
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OK, Off phone with Walker, They have one which is close [ dimension wise] but not a homerun. It would require a "rebuild" to make it look like original or [ if you don't care, it could be used as-is]. They are around $200-. From what I have heard they have a nice sound similar to Nelson. There are 4 of them sitting in VA now. Anyone interested let me know, [ just trying to help ]..........
Both size round styles are available about $90 for one, $50 for the other.
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Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 1:48pm
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The Walker type mufflers are "turbo" style mufflers with vented interior walls that are sound deadened with roving fiberglass or other packing. It will look like a dynomax super turbo muffler but smaller. I would try to match the dimensions with a stainless turbo type muffler then paint it if you wish, it will never rust and require zero maintenance. I have also worked in a muffler and transmission shop at one time, and all dynomax mufflers are produced by Walker, they own the brand. If you didn't want to stay original you could go with a round 4 or 5" body muffler for ease of installation and they make a ton of them in stainless, example- Magnaflow, Pypes, Flowmaster, Borla, and even Cherry Bomb and Thrush make a stainless polished glass pack, but the glass packs may be to loud for you, unless you went with a body longer than 20"s. Just make sure to match up what size pipe is coming from the exhaust manifold, idk what it is on a D-17, probably2" or 2 1/4". Hope this helps, if you need to know what they sound like you can hit each products website and they usually have sound clips.
------------- Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends! Lonas |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 2:03pm
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I do not know much about mufflers, these are Tractor/Commercial models that Walker offers. Can anyone verify if Fleetguard stop making mufflers?? They bought Nelson, and my commercial truck guy [ who originally could get Nelsons] said the number is coming up as "zero'" sooo, that means NLA, he thinks Fleetguard just stopped making mufflers altogether.
Anything has to be better than the Stanleys!! I may just order one and do the mod's to test it, I'll put it on the 175 for sound test! If it sounds good, I can pull it and sell it.
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Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 2:17pm
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If you look at the online catalog and are armed with measurements, you can probably find it in their production list.
http://www.nelsonglobalproducts.com/catalogs/" rel="nofollow - http://www.nelsonglobalproducts.com/catalogs/
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Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 2:18pm
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Turbo type mufflers that have good build quality will not have a "tingy" sound to them, they will flow well and won't cause turbulence in the chambers, (that is what makes the tingy sound, it gets trapped in the body and bounces around) and almost always, the longer the body, the quiter the sound, just look at Flowmasters Hushpower mufflers. ------------- Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends! Lonas |
Posted By: jlogli
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 3:59pm
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I just put one my series IV that i got from Yesterdays tractor. Not to bad sounding. ------------- 1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler. |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 6:56pm
| What brand is the muffler from Yesterday's?? I did not see any Ovals offered at the Nelson Global website. |
Posted By: jlogli
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 8:20pm
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Part NO: 70246129 Muffer, 42001 and up. Yesterday's tractor co. ------------- 1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler. |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 8:51pm
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jlogli wrote:Posted By: jlogli
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 9:15pm
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Stanley it is. ------------- 1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler. |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 10:43am
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I did some looking last night. I don't think Nelson has a stock muffler comparable to the Series IV. I did find the WD45 muffler. (05388T) and another for the 7000 series. (18202T) |
Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 2:28pm
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We have the Nelson/Walker mufflers in stock at our dealership. They run close to $300 though. I don't believe the higher quality muffler can be bought aftermarket, so you have a choice, buy the $50 one, put up with the noise and terrible sound, and replace it six times, or spend the $300, have it last, and have the good sound. ------------- Matt Folkers FOLKERS RESTORATION Restoring vintage things to last so the future can enjoy our past. |
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 3:13pm
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Chris, Sorry I didn't get back to you, and thanks to you and all the other replies for helping. I don't have the SN handy, but it is a Series IV gas, and the same as a 170 gas. I measured the current Stanley muffler, and the oval is 4" X 8 1/2", with probably an 1/8-1/4" clearance to the hood cutout all around. Stanley lists the input pipe of the muffler at 1 15/16", but I'm sure any 2" inlet would clamp down over the stub on the manifold. I stopped by our local NAPA, and then another old-style auto store that will take the time to look up parts in a book without an application. The closest we came was a 18102, which is 4 1/4" X 8 13/16", with a 2" inlet in the center. They also show an 18101 I think it was, that has a slightly longer body. I need to measure the hood cutout tonight more accurately, as I think is going to be not quite big enough to accept the 8 13/16" dimension with the lip on the crimps of the muffler. I also saw in his books that the next size down in an oval was something like 3 3/4" X 7 3/4",with a 1 3/4" inlet. I forgot to write down the part number. I'm going to keep looking at the automotive applications, as it is such as simple setup. All it needs is for the oval to fit the hood opening. I think an automotive muffler with a simple extension on top and painted black would like fine, and it sure couldn't sound worse than the Stanley thing on it now. Plus, the price at NAPA was around $50, although if anyone found a perfect fitting similar muffler $100 or so wouldn't be too much. I checked the Nelson websites and such, and couldn't find an application to fit. Whoever finds the right crossover part number, I'll bet there'll be a bunch of D17 IV/170 owners will to buy them. |
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 5:44pm
| I got home from work and pulled the hood to measure the opening more accurately, and it is closer to 5" X 9 3/4". So it looks to me like the NAPA 18102 muffler should fit through it ok. This seems to be a common sized muffler, and it cross references with most car parts places. I don't think it should introduce too much back pressure, although I suppose finding the same sized muffler in more of a performance flow through design wouldn't hurt. The price is $41, so I might take a chance and see if it works, unless someone tells me it might hurt the engine with different backpressure. If I put it on, I'll post a pic and let everyone know what the sound is like. Hopefully, it's not tooo quiet. |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 7:55pm
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I have the oval of the muffler [stock] at about 4.5" X 9" long. The body in height is aprx 161/2" long. 2" inlet at about 5-6". Sounds like oldoug has the unit. I'm wondering if these mufflers at his dealership are the 14222T units that I priced a year+ back? I wonder if those are leftover stock as all the Nelson and Walker people I've talk to don't offer anything. It appears Nelson is now Nelsonglobal? and I did not see a offering in there catalog, but I did not spend to much time looking. Walker does have one that's close, if it could be bought at $125 or so, I would buy and modify it to try. My supplier quoted $165 so it would not be prudent at that price point.
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Posted By: NC Bruce
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 9:38pm
AllisUpstate, I've been buying my AC170D and 175D mufflers from a local Muffler Custom Shop. He has the oval sizes in stock for trucks or whatever. They will use their streacher machine to make it fit manifold outlet, and add pipe to make it taller. Haven't bought one in several years, but wasn't terribly expensive. They are super quiet, and I really appreciate that (losing my hearing in old age...ha!) Some of the good mechanics on this AC site, may advise against using 'gas' type mufflers on Diesel engines?? But I've been running these hard for several years. (can some of you offer possible side effects?) Here's a photo of one: (what do you think?) |
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 7:35am
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Chris and NC Bruce, It looks like the 4.5" X 9" oval size is very common, and I found a bunch of ones now on Advance Auto and sites like that, with 2" center inlet and basically any body length one wants. I've found them as cheap as $24 some places. So this seems to be the route to go. I could also probably hit our local Cole Muffler shop and find one there. Chris, are you selling the Walker ones? I didn't know you were a vendor, and I certainly would rather have the money going to someone on this site than a stranger. The Walker is probably much better quality, but $150 is quite a bit more than I'm finding even the NAPA ones at for $40. I am going to poke around one more time to try to find a "performance" muffler with supposedly better flow through. With some hi temp black paint and an extension on the outlet, except for the crimped ends, I think it will look pretty good. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 8:09am
| Any suggestions for a muffler on a WC. I too am getting older and would like to have a quieter tractor. I use it for brush hogging so don't want to loose too much power. |
Posted By: NC Bruce
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 9:24am
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Byron, you might take your WC Muffler to a local custom muffler shop that can cut, stretch and modify exhaust systems. They could probably find and fit one for you, and advise which one would be the quietest too. I don't know if Mida's or other commercial muffler shops could, but worth a try? (You have to keep asking questions and trying to find ways around the NO, or Don't NO, answer...ha! )(...that's what I do at car parts stores, looking for voltage regulators, coils, and stuff for my 170's/175's and all the old AC tractors!)...My son always ask for the oldest gentlman in the shop, for experience and ideas......ha! But like AllisUpState said, I like to support our AC vendors here too! Keep us posted what you find out, thanx, Bruce - North Carolina
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2012 at 7:36pm
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I put on a Walker 18101 universal replacement muffler, and wow, is this thing great! It is quiet, but the D17 still sounds like a tractor. I bushogged 5 acres today, and didn't need earplugs, and the 17 had all the power she had before. I painted the muffler with hi temp paint. I was going to put an extension on the outlet, but liked the height just as it was and just stuck the raincap on it. The muffler is a 18101. The dimensions are 4.5"X9", and as you can see, it fits perfectly. The 18102 is a bit shorter body. I got mine from a local Parts Plus store for $42. However, NAPA had the same part #, as did most auto stores. As for flow through, it crosses with a 67 Thunderbird with a 428, so I think it can handle the flow of the Allis just fine. This is definitely the way to go. It just transformed the Allis from a tinny loud pain, to a modern, quiet tractor I can run at full rated speed without having to cover my ears.  |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 5:09am
| I'll keep you posted on the Walker tractor muffler I ordered. I'm giving it a try off the shelf, more concerned with looks, the sound/performance will be great. Yes, pricey up front but, will last longer than 2-3 stanley's over time. Sounds like a good muffler will set you back $150 and up. Will post pic when it mounted. |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 11:23am
| The 18101 does not have the domed top does it? If it sits outside it will hold water on the top or worse funnel it into the engine if their is a pinhole. |
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 12:14pm
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Nathan, Yes it does have a flat top and the crimped seam, so the top will hold water. I plugged the pinhole with a stainless screw before painting it, so no water will leak down if I leave it outside. Unless I have to, I don't store any of the tractors outside, but even so, it won't get any water down. Plus, since it isn't a straight through design, I don't think any small amount of water would find its way down to the manifold. It's not a perfect solution, but for $40, it sounds great and is a perfect fit into the oval of the hood cutout, and it's a heck of a lot better than the Stanley I took off. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 12:31pm
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I've been the automotive muffler route. It sure was nice to be able to hear the birds sing while I mowed or plowed. Trouble with the crimped mufflers is that the inlet pipe is also crimped and holding the muffler vertical that crimp breaks soon. A few low hanging tree limbs speeds that up. I'm using a welded glass pack now and its not as quiet but its survived tree limbs several years. Neglecting glass fiber filling, a mufler is most effective when the ratio maximum diameter to inlet diameter is greatest. E.g. a 4x9 oval is quieter than a 4" round. A longer muffler can be quieter. OEM and Stanley muflers aren't very good, with little baffling or filling. I still wear the best ear protection muffs I can buy. Gerald J. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 1:44pm
| Maybe I missed something here, but does Agco still sell the one in the Agco Heritage parts book #79010612V, bottom of page 136? Yes, no, or it is a dud (tinny sound) or too expensive? |
Posted By: jlogli
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 1:49pm
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$$$$$$ ------------- 1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler. |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 2:34pm
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You could go with one of these, and it is pre painted black, and they are welded not crimped. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLO-942545/" rel="nofollow - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLO-942545/
------------- Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends! Lonas |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 2:36pm
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You could also do this one, they are supposed to be very quite. Look through summitracing.com they have all the walker stuff and dynomax mufflers, plus all other performance brands. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-21054/" rel="nofollow - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-21054/
------------- Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends! Lonas |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 6:18pm
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I called AGCO, the #79010612v muffler is $75.71. They estimate shipping just under $20 and is in stock in Illinois warehouse. Tax and all $105?? Is that an outrage? So, does this muffler (the official modern service part from AGCO) have the right tone? Has anyone purchased that muffler? |
Posted By: Rick
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 6:45pm
| My personal experience with the Agco mufflers are that I thought they sounded pretty good. To me 105.00 isn't that bad for an Agco brand muffler. You might get one cheaper,but then you get what you pay for sometimes...less money,but poor sound and shorter life. Been there,done that a few times! Just my own thoughts on the subject,nothing more. Rick |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 7:35pm
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The last D17 III muffler I bought directly from AGCO was a Stanley in an AGCO box. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 8:48pm
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The 79010612v muffler is gonna be a Stanley, if you want the Nelson one it is part number 70246129 and is just over $300. The old A-C fast moving parts book makes note that the correct A-C muffler should always be used, if not poor engine performance and shortened valve life can be expected. I know $300 is high for a muffler, but when the correct muffler is available I can't understand people buying like three different kinds of mufflers for $40-$60 just to experiment with them. When you do that you have half the cost of the correct muffler stuck in a muffler doesn't look right, collects water, and has a screw plugging a drain hole? I guess to me to spend that kinda money I would have to plan on keeping and using the tractor for a long time, if it was a tractor I was gonna fix up and sell I guess I would put the cheaper Stanley on. ------------- Matt Folkers FOLKERS RESTORATION Restoring vintage things to last so the future can enjoy our past. |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 4:44am
| Olddoug, Is that Agco # for oval or round? Thanks. |
Posted By: Rick
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 5:48am
| It has been a while since I bought an Agco muffler from a dealer,but the ones I had purchased were definitely Agco mufflers in the Agco box. However,not all items that come from Agco are made in the USA either any more. I notice that it doesn't show in the price of things though. Rick |
Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 12:26pm
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70246129 is the correct oval style Nelson muffler for the D17 gas. We've sold one a year at our dealership since 2009 even though the muffler runs $300. ------------- Matt Folkers FOLKERS RESTORATION Restoring vintage things to last so the future can enjoy our past. |
Posted By: PlayGun
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 1:29pm
Well if a man was going to keep a tractor and he wanted to stay original that's the way to go. The Nelson is probably US made too, idk, but most are overseas tin cans. ------------- Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends! Lonas |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 3:43pm
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Seems like a lot of hassle to find the right muffler, then paying about $37 per pound for a good one? |