rodb and wi50
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49728
Printed Date: 18 Aug 2025 at 12:05pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: rodb and wi50
Posted By: mlpankey
Subject: rodb and wi50
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 4:22pm
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Since you guys are such a authority on air flow and depression. I am wondering why wi choose a 500 cfm two barrel over a 390 or 450 cfm four barrel? ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Replies:
Posted By: Michael Welch
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 5:12pm
| It must be raining in Vols county. |
Posted By: acd21man
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 5:15pm
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nope its dry here in tennessee lol ------------- 2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 5:18pm
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Yeap its dry. Honeysuckle pollen has me in the garage playing with a cylinder head for a chainsaw. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 5:44pm
Because he knows little about depression..and isn't interested in yours? HA HA He chose the 500 'cuz it's a nice even number, that would be my guess. If he did it to upset you, then shame on him.
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mlpankey wrote:Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 6:08pm
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Industry depression that a twoo barrel cfms are rated at is double the industry standard depression a four barrel cfm is measured at. Apples to oranges. Give the two yahoos time to raise answere and see if they think 500 cfm at two barrrel depression standard is more than 390 cfms at fourbarrel industry standards. Sometimes what appears painfully obvious really isnt ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 7:09pm
I read that he was useing a 650 cfm carb with mods. So I searched some old posts and read that it is a Holley 6425. Who's the nit wit now? He isn't even useing the 500 as you assume. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 7:16pm
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Ok why did he choose the 6425 two barrel attract 650cfm over a 450 cfm four barrel. I think garry got it when he said you two new little about depression. Proving you guys arent what you say you are when it comes to airflow. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 7:43pm
| I would not know why he is useing that carb. But I would like to know why you chose a USX21 carb? |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 8:01pm
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I am glad your finally admitting you dont know about air flow.now waiting on the other to admit it. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 8:40pm
| All I admitted was that I have no idea why WI chose the carb he did. That's his business. I know plenty and one thing that I know is that carb he has would flow over 2x what the one you chose would. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 8:44pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 10:02pm
| I was referring to your mental depression, or what ever ails you. ...... |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 11:24pm
| Well congrats pankey. You have learned that 2bbl carbs are rated different than 4bbl carbs. The aprentice is learning something. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 11:45pm
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I'm sorry, I didn't get on here sooner. But it wouldn't matter. By the looks of it pankey doesn't even know what he's trying to argue about.
I had posted some pictures of the tractor over on YT mag forum about a year agoe and he was claiming up and down it's a 4bbl carb. Now tonight he's saying it's a 500 2bbl. Then in this thread Rod pointed out that it was something else. I searched those old threads where I mentioned what it was only to find pankey quoteing everything I posted. So he's seen what it is, read those posts and yet comes on here claiming something else.
So if you ever do figure out what you're trying to argue about, I can answer the questions. But untill then good luck pissin up a rope. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 9:59am
| Yikes...Personal attacks on an Allis-Chalmers web site? pankey, stay on some other site, jeez... |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 10:26am
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pank came lookin for an argument armed with no knowledge. Again. So pank please tell us why you used a USX21 carb when any downdraft or injection system is far superior. Can you also tell us why you would use a large diameter main berring crank when the smaller one would have less rotational friction? I also see heavy stock Allis pushrods in your pictures,no good for such a high performance application. What is up with those heavy rods with wide berrings when so much better parts are available. Now you know I'm messin with you but next time you try any personal attacks think a little more. I know that you'll never man up to your promise to get running and make us that video, travel around and show us. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 1:12pm
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Wi why did you choose a carb that flows less than 450cfms at wot with1.5 hg depression.its a simple straight forward question. Tell rob that updrafts and two barrels cfms are measured at the same depression so cfm speaking a two barrel doesnt have a cfm advantage over a updraft if both are the same cfm.he hangs on your every word. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 4:32pm
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I'm certain WI knows what he's doing. Weather or not he wishes to share it is up to him. But in reading those old threads he explains why. Once again we have a confused pankey. He's unable to retain information he's already been exposed to. So why keep skateing around my questions? That carb WI is useing is over 2x the cfm rateing of yours pankey, and would be a much better match to the engine than you had. Don't worry about him. He's been out pulling while you've been lying from your keyboard. I like seeing the refrence to working on your chainsaw. You must have been reading some of WI's old posts on modifying them. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 5:39pm
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Its pretty simple the rules said run a updraft.so i did and done some tricks to pull air from other places than the carb that i want share but i am shure you guys know them if i can think of them to do. Oh maybe not i forgot i am dealing with imbeciles. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 8:47pm
| WOW... |
Posted By: acd21man
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 10:07pm
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im kinda like the old man in the movie alvin c york.. (it ant in my corn) . which i think what some certain person needs to learn is that means mind your own buiseness ------------- 2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 10:29pm
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Wi50, when we gunna flow my manifold and head? Lol Carl |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:29am
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Oh pankey pankey pankey, why won't you answer my questions?
We all know why. Next time you come on these forums asking questions and trying to insult others rember that some of us know plenty more than you do. Most of us are honest.
Now that you have admitted to cheating. I know that you are not pulling air from somewhere else. Why not show all of us some pictures. You claim to be here to help others, so please do so.
Of course you can't produce those pictures. It's another lie, and will have some bogus answer.
You really don't know anything about WI's tractor. Been bouncing around on carb cfm rateings all over in this thread. But you don't even know much of anything about the engine or what it would require. Your questions are only a desperate attempt to learn.
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:19am
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Pank, that carb I chose is not less than 450 cfm at 1.5" hg. You have no idea what it is or what mods it's had. So you still have no question.
But why did I use it?
For a couple reasons, I could give some scientific ones on carb signal, the benifits of annular fuel metering.
Maybe I used it because it fit nicely, with no fuel bowl on one side it mounts nicely and keeps my intake runner length correct.
But maybe the real reason is that it was really cheap, and with all the money I saved I could pay for pankey to have a psychiatric evaluation, that's $355 an hour with my friend Rockin Rodney Bender....... or any other mental health service providers.
No problem Carl, lust call sometime and we can test those parts for you, and show a few tricks and easy places to gain. I've got adapters made for everything so it takes no time to pull some tests on the flowbench. Saturdays or rain days work best. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:47am
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rod I didnt admit to cheating . the rule say updraft I run a updraft . nothing in the rule book said everything has to be sealed up tight so i didnt. my motor displaced over 400 cubic inches of air with the throttle closed does yours? carefull the answere could be tricky. Wi you started with a factory rated 650 cfm at 3 hg two barrel . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:08am
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Man, you guys wont let up on each other will you....
I had a big post typed up, but I just backspaced it all.....cant say something nice dont say it at all..... ------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:26am
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He also started with a factory 201 cid engine rated at about 30 hp. Has about the same merrit pankey. Please answer my questions, as you seam to be avoiding them. I'll answer yours, no it does not displace over 400 CID with the throttle closed. It displaces 212 CID inches of air with the throttle closed at any one time, as that's the volume of air held in all the cylinders combined at any given point. But displaces a whole lot more air when it's in rotation, so with a CR of 12 to 1 you have a math problem to solve.Why did you sell your parts after promising to put it togather and show us? Why will you not answer my questions?
I have delt with many patients like you over my career. Most of them never amounted to a hill of beans.
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 11:43am
I'm pretty busy and don't have much time to check in here, but your math is still off, as are your concepts of airflow.
We would use a simple conversion factor of 1.414 when compareing the 2bbl and 4bbl carb rateings. So you are saying (above in the post I quoted) that the 650 cfm 2bbl flows less than 450 cfm at 1.5"hg. Which is not true, it is really rated about 460 cfm @1.5hg
Above you tell us it's less than 450 at 1.5"hg , but it is not.
The one I was running ran around 730-740 cfm on the flowbench, so in turn would be roughly 540 cfm on conventional 4bbl rateings.
That makes it a real good match for my engine displacement and speed at where I built the other parts for, but then again how good of volumetric effiency can I achieve? I'm dealing with a siamesed port engine, and poor design to start with. I did cut the ports out of the head and build new ones to help, splitting the intake port as far out as I could to prevent overlap, but I can only do so much work in the casting that I have to start with.
It really is a simple question, but not the right question, I never did chose a carb of less than 450 cfm rateing......which is the question you asked.
The diffeerence is that I did not have to get all bent out of shape and insult people.
I'd love to see Rod's questions answered. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 1:13pm
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Wonderfull post Marty. That is what seperates you two. One of you knows information, has logical reasoning, has the tools, and the experience with these engines. The other is nothing more than a bumbling idiot who has now learned the difference in carb rateings, the conversion factor and that more than a 500 2 barrel carb exists.
Next time pank wants some information he should ask the right questions to start with.
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 6:33pm
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Took you long enough to figure the square root of 2. But you posted yout engine pulled 7 inches at wot in a post i believe.10 cfm if yous running on the cheap as stated above you know a 450or a600 cfm four barrel can be had for less than 100 and with just the choke housing milled off would kick the two barrel with alot of works secondarries.when asked straight up it takes him a day or two to either research or ask a buddy or daddy how to answere correctly. However he did get the square of two . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:34pm
| Pankey,check the muffler system bearings for proper bushing MO2 and re-align the gypsum saddle. Then, retork the hydrflurocarban platinum tipped halogen fluid to about 68 parsecs. Once the bindlelater is desludged down by the carberator fanbelt, de-flux the flux capacitizer, and then plane about 18.5 millinanograms off the KFC set screw. This should get you close to the genesis nexus critical mass number of 423 drams. Good luck...Other than that, its nun of my business |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:00pm
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Trevman. Flux capacitors are so outdated. Salad food processor was the last movie craze. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:25pm
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You guys confuse me but this I believe.
[TUBE]BjRRCb2Psd4[/TUBE] ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 9:49pm
| Jeez whiz, who really cares! Never posted about this pissing match before but tonight im feeling froggy. Really dont know either of you two, but i have seen marty's tractor run in person and talked to him before in my youth. His tractor gave me ideas that i never had thought of before , kinda of an outside the box experience. I also really enjoyed see pictures and the dialogue of pankeys engine build. These two tractors are in totally different classes but are both orange which i totally love!! Absolutely despise the red and green colored tractors period, and by green i mean both brands. One thing about tractor pulling is no matter what class you're in one factor and only one factor will vary between the tractor that gets the 100 dollars and a trophy and the tractor in second place and that is the driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blah Blah Blah about carbs about so many inches of depression, seiously how much power difference and mechanical advantage do you expect to get, enough to make the difference between drivers, track conditions and so on i doubt it! Put three drivers on the same tractor pankey and see how much difference in feet there is between the farthest and shortest, i would bet mathmatically on the computer 20 horse cant make up the difference! So Long story short keep the builds and info coming and pisssing matches reserved for some fantasy pulling league or something!!!!!!! Please. |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:17pm
| No Pankey, Flux Capacitizer, wont work in a salad processer, I tried it... |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:30pm
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You know Allisman, pankey only wants us to beleve he knows something. He blew his engine up with only 5 runs on it and has made up a bunch of bogus stories. When questioned makes up lies. Now he comes on here lookin for an argument and totally gets his but kicked. Pankey is trying to insult him again by saying it takes to much time for a reply so he has to ask someone for information. I met the guy in person, he knows this stuff inside and out. He's done his homework and worked hard. No one gave it to him. I still want to know why he's avoiding my questions? |
Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 11:34pm
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My vocational auto instructor always reminded us that the Wright Bros. airplane did'nt fly the first time out either. Pretty simple and great verbal wisdom, I'm sure both these guys have trashed more than their fair share of allis parts. Rod what do you pull, do you have any success or failure stories? Really enjoy hearing them,reason one to get ideas, and two to learn of others mistakes so as not to do the same thing myself. I know questions have been asked and left unanswered on this post so on and so on. Has anyone tried EFI on a 226 block or build a cross flow head, or wow go for the real gusto and design a hemispherical head with an overhead cam that turns 7000 rpm's ? Keep the tech coming for all us orange gear heads. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 7:11am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 12:39pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 7:26am
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bumb .seams when I put out tech . info . there are no cheerleaders for me . hurrah hurrah sock em in the knee . I guess i will just cheer myself. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 10:54am
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You tryed hard pankey, but you did not know the question had no answer. Thankfully WI was able to outline why. I have no doubt you are an expert on mental depression. You must be scared to answer my questions. You been skateing around them for days now. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 12:03pm
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I answered because the rules said so. pretty straight to the point if you have comprehension skills. I also asked why you think his carb flows twice what mine did when you dont know how much vacuum depression my big engine pulled . Wi stated at wot no load his pulled 7 hg .I never said what mine pulled other than my engine was capable of pulling more than 28 inches of water through the head. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 5:10pm
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When you learn some more of the basics of airflow, you will learn that air is not drawn into the cylinder but rather it is pushed in by atmospheric pressure. It is not good to have so much depression in the intake manifold, it only tells us how much restriction there is. It's also a non linear equation, but that's for later when you learn more.
Why would you limet yourself by useing such a small carb? The engine would make a lot more power with one sized correctly like WI is useing. If it has to be an updraft carb, there are much better options out there.
So you fail to answer my questions of why useing such a large diameter main berring when a smaller one has less friction and less berring speed. Also why the wide rods? Why the heavy stock Allis push rods when there are much better options out there.
When will you be running and make us that video that you promised over a year ago? As at that time you only were going to put a rod in and show all of us how it was done.
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 6:24pm
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When you two laids get a wet flow setup you realize how basic you two are and untill then try not to pull over 190 inches of water on wis orifice tube your liable to damage his urethra ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 6:24pm
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Rod, how can you have any argument about an engine when you can even spell the parts correctly. Last time a checked the word "berring" was spelt like this. BEARING. And you two should really give it a rest, go meet at a cracker barrel and duke it out or something. That is all. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 9:05pm
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Man, I never thought my choice of carbs could be so tough on some people. In the time some have spent worrying about what I did, they could have done something on their own....... I managed to port a cylinder head for a customer, plant a few hundred acres of corn, build a fuel tank for our alky superstock and get some of the intake manifold done for it. Today we even pulled this Allis engine apart to do some work on the crank and bearings.
I did run a Zenith carb from a big Continental engine with a 2.25" throttle plate and a 1.9" venturi, then ran a Stromberg NAR-6B and NAR-7B carb for a while, but then went to the downdraft.
I suppose I could have argued for a few weeks about which one works best, but I really don't know untill I try and see. Messed with a few cam grinds a few times to see what worked best, in that old video there's quite a difference in some of the runs depending on carb and cam. Can't go off what someone else says is right, and can't go off the computer program or the magazine article.
Allisman, why do you think I did not post any pictures of the top end of the engine this winter in the Crossbreading thread........I'll show them sometime, but I'd bet it'll be tough for our village idiot to comprehend. It's pretty involved makeing a laminated deck plate and things aren't finished enough yet to show. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 10:35pm
| WI hope you are staying busy in the shop and not reading all this rubbish! When i saw your tractor in person and pulling you were running a massive updraft stromberg carb. At that point after seeing your tractor and you showing me your pics of the build you jumped to the top of my list of super cool gearhead guys! Unfortunately in my area unless you are running in a run what you brung open class at 6500 lbs there is no class for a Super Bad A$$ WC Allis. Pankeys engine build did seem to fit into the design and build criteria for an Allis tractor in our area in the antique class where a WC or WD could be competitive. Now i can think of several reasons why to use a simple 2 barrel carb like WI. First the simplicity of only one float bowl and metering block. Two a standard 226 design head has only 2 intake ports wow how simple could tuning and intake design features be with a ( hold the applause) 2 barrel carb. A person can analyze and over analyze this all they want but at the end of the the day success versus dollars spent is all that matters to me period!!!!!!!! The hook fees cost the same at 20,000 dollars investment or 2,000 and only one guy can claim to be a winner. I appreciate more than both you gentleman can realize the info you put onto this site and hope you keep it coming!!! At the end of the day lets concentrate on beating the SOB ( some other Brands) and make the little orange tractors that could be the best that they can be for the class that they are in! Keep the tech coming guys we are few and far between. |