D21 series I rebuild, convert back to non turbo?
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Topic: D21 series I rebuild, convert back to non turbo?
Posted By: pirlbeck
Subject: D21 series I rebuild, convert back to non turbo?
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 9:00am
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I am going this weekend to pickup a D21 Series I that I bought a month or so ago and I need to decide if I am going to switch it back to a factory "non turbo" or leave it as a turbo tractor. I need to decide now, because I have a choice on some parts that will be needed on the conversion. It presently has a 3500 engine in it, with a hole in the block, but it comes with a rebuildable 3400 short block. According to the seller it has the correct non-turbo fuel lines on it, so it probably just has the 3500 block with some of the 3400 parts hung on it. How hard will the other required parts be to locate? I am thinking the exhaust manifold, with the muffler adapter and the muffler may be the hardest parts to find. The seller has a non-turbo hood that will go with it if I decide to go that way.
As far as the power and using the tractor, I don't really plan on doing any real work with it, maybe a little playing around with a bushhog and some tractor rides. While I know the extra power is always fun, I have another tractor that I pull with, so I don't need the power to go play with that way.
I guess my main concern is the value of the tractor down the road.......will a correct non turbo series I be worth substantially more then a converted series I?
Thanks! Pat
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Replies:
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 9:40am
Store the non-turbo parts and leave the turbo in place. I always like the sound of the turbo "whooosing" during engine deceleration.
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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Posted By: DarrylinWA
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 12:00pm
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Pat I am going to convert one of my tractors back to as stock as possible. It is all a matter of opnion on what you all want to do and how far. My way of thinking is the more you get it back to stock, the more valuable it will be. Here is some examples of what I am doing. I have a series 1 with the original 3400 engine. I am going to put it back to non turbo. You cant find a original muffler and you can buy a little different one and have to make a adapter to go out the stock exhaust hole (I just did one for my Industrail series 1) Next it is hard to find all the series 1 parts on the engine, but try as best you can. Grab the series 1 hood for sure, not making anymore and less series 1 hoods then series 2. If it has the six lug front end and rims, grab that. Hard to find the rims and front end because so many were converted over to 8 lug. If it has 3 point, the upper adjuster ears were bent round stock instead of the series 2 style that had the clips. On the air cleaner, it is different and mounts on the left side under the hood, instead of the right. If it has the round top 3 inch air cleaner bonnet, grab that, If you dont want it, I will pay you good money for that. (Yes I said it, good money) Thats what I can think of outside cosmetic wise. Just my opnion. Any questions feel free to PM me and I can talk over the phone with you. Take care, Darryl
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B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 4:43pm
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Please pay attention to this post. If you have a D21 that had the turbo AND the engine oil cooler added on, there should be (if the installation was done correctly) a slug placed in the vertical oil galley behind the inj pump. If you remove the turbo and the eng oil cooler and fail to remove this slug, you will in very short order wipe out all the main and rod bearings from lack of engine oil, because this slug is blocking the oil flow to the main oil galley. Any questions?? call me when you remove the oil cooler assembly and while you're standing alongside the tractor looking at the block I can explain what needs to be done.
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Posted By: Tony Elo
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 6:15pm
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Doctor you are the man.I was wondering about the oil lines for the turbo myself,if I were this guy I would follow the doctors orders,he knows his stuff
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Posted By: irlbeck A-C'S
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 10:12pm
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Hey cousin Pat... While your at it, why don't you find me one of those D-21'S LoL!!!!! Craig
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Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 11:38pm
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OK guys, thanks for the replies. I will try to get
any extra parts I can get the seller to sell or part with. What is a D21 hood
worth anyway?
427235,
If I can come up with all of the parts to have it
complete both ways I may do just that. Leaving the turbo on it would make it a
much more fun tractor to drive or use.
Darryl,
I will be contacting you to talk to you about a
turbo to non-turbo conversion. I looked at a map to see where you are at in
Washington state......I have a son in Portland, OR and get out there at least
once a year. It looks like your are quite a ways north of Seattle. How many
hours are you from Portland?
Dr. Allis
Thanks for the info on the oil galley plug. Did a
factory 3400 block have no provisions for an oil cooler? I looked at the parts
breakdown today for an oil cooler block off plate and could not find anything
and finally decided that maybe a non turbo block had NO ports for the oil
cooler.....would that be correct?
Cousin Craig,
If I get my stable full of D21's I'll keep you in
mind. Don't hold your breath though......I looked for quite a, while before
I found a D21 I could afford. Granted, it is going to need a fair amount of
work, but that doesn't bother me too much. The mechanical part is pretty easy
other then the cost. It's the paint and body type work I don't enjoy much.
Maybe
we could work out D21 for a dozer trade. :)
Thanks for all your help!
Pat
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Posted By: DarrylinWA
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 11:52pm
I still have a series 2 D 21 for sale with 3 point and PTO. Pat, I am about 5 hrs north of Portland. 1 mile from the Canadian Border. Lynden WA. Also about 20 minutes from the Puget Sound area.
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B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 6:11am
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3400 block has the same oil passage porting for an engine oil cooler that a 3500 eng does.....the blocks are the same except for this slug, which is used on 3500 with the cooler and NOT USED on a 3400 without the oil cooler.
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Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 7:00am
The other item not mentioned is the rad. You will need the Series I rad which is shorter to be able to use the series I hood with the door to the rad cap.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Posted By: DarrylinWA
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 7:47am
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Good point Calvin, I had my filler neck shortened at the rad shop for mine. Thanks for the wisdom sir !!! LOL !!! Take care, Darryl
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B 10 Custom. Serial # 1001 D21, First D21 built 69 #4498 and Last D 21 Built #4609. 1946 MM UTU. And 2000, 2005 Pete's. AC custom Hauling.
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Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 9:57am
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Do I understand this correctly, the series II radiator will work just by shortening the filler neck? Or is the overall height of the radiator shorter?
Also, if the 3400 & 3500 blocks are the same, except for the galley plug, what plugs off the oil cooler mounting ports on a 3400?
Thanks for all the great info!
Pat
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Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 10:36am
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The oil cooler ports are threaded and when the oil cooler is not used they are plugged, but like Dr Allis said there is also a slug that is put in between the oil cooler ports that forces the oil out and through the cooler.
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Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2012 at 10:03pm
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Dr. Allis,
I can understand the need to block the passage off
to force the oil through the oil cooler and likewise I can see why the
slug needs removed if you do not have an oil cooler installed. But how tight of
fit is this slug in the galley or what keeps the oil pressure from eventually
forcing it one way or another? And if you want to remove it, how does one go
about getting it out?
Thanks!
Pat |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2012 at 8:36pm
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When you remove the engine oil cooler , you'll see four threaded holes in the side of the block. The very top and bottom are threaded and not plugged and are the oil "out" (bottom) for the eng oil and "in" (top) to the main oil galley to lube the engine internally. You will have to install 1/2" pipe plugs in these two holes. The middle two plugs are the focus of this "blocking slug". I think the bottom plug must be removed and if the slug is there, use a magnet and pull it out. I think that's all it takes, but you could remove the upper middle plug and be sure there isn't a second one there too.
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Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2012 at 9:54pm
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Dr. Allis,
OK, that makes sense now. I had envisioned a slug
that drove into the galley from the bottom, by removing a galley pipe plug, with
the pan removed.
When I tear the 3500 engine down, I will have to
remove the plugs from the cooler area and have a look. Is this blockoff slug mentioned in
the factory 3400/3500 engine service manual?
Thanks for your help!
Pat
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