Twin row corn
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Topic: Twin row corn
Posted By: Mike NEIN
Subject: Twin row corn
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 7:46pm
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Has anybody out there planted twin row corn? I just bought a Kinze twin line and converted it to twin rows, so I hope it's worth it. Any input would be helpful. Thanks,
Mike
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Replies:
Posted By: JP (nwOH)
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 7:52pm
| A friend of mine from Paulding, Ohio loves his. Plants corn and beans. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 7:53pm
| I don't intend to be mean but I would put this post on new Agtalk they are a more progressive crowd as a whole . From what I have heard twin row corn has a yeild advantage over non since the plants are spaced out better and use the lite more efficiently, twin row is something I would have liked to do myself bit couldn't sell my business partner on it. |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 7:57pm
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i know a guy that does it, 30" rows with 4" offsets, corn and beans both. picks it with 30" corn head. He sais it has higher yield but don't know him well enough to know for sure. one thing about it though, it's easy to tell which ground he farms.
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Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 7:58pm
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We have more progressive farmers on straight 20 inch rows than twin .. much more .. Personnaly i dont try to line Monsantos pockets any more than i have to as we plant all GMO hybrids .
jmho ------------- WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 8:20pm
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I read an article recently that said outside rows do better than inside rows because of sun. I can't imagine twin row helping that much but who knows. I plant my beans with a drill and that works great for me where others do 30" spacing. My ground is worse so my plants are smaller but there are more of them. Then again, last year I got 52 bpa on beans with my drill and I was tickled. |
Posted By: cwhit
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 8:50pm
| We have several in this area with twin rows. To me, the beans seem to do a little better cause they have a better "push" coming up in the spring compared to 15, 30, or drilled. |
Posted By: Russ-neia
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 9:47pm
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I have been curious about it for some time. I think Great Plains has the best, with true staggering of the plants between the twin rows. The closest to equidistant is the theoretical goal, but you have to be able to control weeds and harvest, so twin row is a good trade-off. ------------- The innovators offer what others will imitate. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 2:15am
| i planted twin rows 2 years ago, staged off of 30" rows, and harvested with a 30 in corn head, had to really slow ground speed down. my CH not equipted to speed up or slow down with ground travel. i didn't weight it, but could tell by what was entering the grain tank it was yeilding good! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 2:19am
| Byron...i also drill beans on my sidehills, but plant rows on the flat ground. 30 in beans here yield the same as drilled, but with alot less seed, i like combining the drilled on my steep side hills, as each plant helps pull the others in after it's cut, have alot less loss that way. |
Posted By: clint
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 9:20am
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mike- did you buy the planter in coal city? the guy had 2 kinzes? ------------- Our farms stuff: agco gt55, AA 8775, 8765, 6080, 185, 180, 175, 170, d15, d14, d14, wd, wd, wd, g, F3, L3, R62 |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 11:15am
| I don't know how great plains does it either but how would you get the seed spacing correct using two different units, and when running two units that close together the secnd unit may be planting on first units ridge or residue. I guess its a management issue but I can see where some guess may make it work while for others it doesn't. |
Posted By: Mike NEIN
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 11:39am
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Clint, Yes that's where it came from.Were you the other guy that wanted the corn planter?
Dan, it's probly going to take a lot of trial and err but get them timed right and it dosen't look to be that big of deal. Just like overhaulin an engine, it wont run right unless you get it timed. I've got it setup on 7.5" x 30" centers. I custom shell for a guy that plants with a Great Plains twin row drill and seems to be the best corn I run every year according to the yield monitor so I guess we'll try it. The row units on the drill aren't heavy enough and the stand isn't the best is why I'm going to try a Kinze, plus I can't afford a GP Yield pro planter.
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Posted By: D17JIM
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 12:27pm
| In our retail plots we have not been able to get enough difference for the investment. We have tried several different rows and row widths and pops and so far 30" has been very close to 20" and even better at times to twin rows. I wonder from our experience if our hybrids are ready for twins or if some soils would just work better than ours. If I was replacing equipment I'd probably switch to 20" and wait for improvements in hyfrids and equipment before going to twins. Just my 2 cents. |
Posted By: bill2260
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 1:07pm
| Thats what we need to sart doing in Western Maryland. Plant twin rows, one row for the deer and the other row for the bear. Bill |
Posted By: norm[ind]
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 7:27pm
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MIKE CALL 574 342 5295 HE HAS DONE IT A FEW YRS. MADE HIS OWN PLANTER HE LIVES A 1 1/2 MILE FROM ME 50 MI FROM YOU CALL ME WILL GIVE THE LOCATION 1/2 MILE EAST OF IND331 ON 8TH RD. 1-800-254-3116 WILL HELP
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Posted By: ACMAN
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 9:22pm
   I will try to put pictures on! I have been thinking about twins for yrs. came up with the idea , to use a 600 frame planter and 8 units 7 inches apart on 38's I know plants aren't off set like some planters can do. but, they are still spaced farther apart than in a single 38 I dropped 30 K from this one . on twins and 30 K on our single row , all other factors were the same. the twins yielded 184 bu. the singles 177 bu. and Yes, you can tell by the pics. I am cheap. all corn will be on twins this yr. with fresh paint . Bill tia 
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Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 11:28pm
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There is a guy that switched to twin rows here about 4 years ago. Bought a 250,000 dollar planter, upt his population . Planted all his beans and corn with it the first year. The last 2 years he has planted the most of his beans with a 15" kinze. From everything I have read, it makes more, but is not more profitable. It is the bottom line that counts, the YEILD is not your bottom line. Twins help for not buying a different corn head. We plant corn in 30". Beans in 30" 20" and 15" On good ground there is very little difference in yeild on beans. Lighter soil 15" are better. I think the defining factor is John Deere doesnt sell one. I asked the dealer why they dont sell a twin row planter? He said Mother John Deere said when there is proof that Twin row pays we will sell one.......
IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: clint
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 7:33am
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Mike- i bought the other cron planter- you got a pretty sweet deal! ------------- Our farms stuff: agco gt55, AA 8775, 8765, 6080, 185, 180, 175, 170, d15, d14, d14, wd, wd, wd, g, F3, L3, R62 |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 8:49am
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IG, Isn't it like rotary combines. As long as Mother Deere couldn't buy or build a working design, then the official line was rotary combines had no advantage over walker machines. Now it's all they have. If Deere could copy Great Plains or another working twin row design it would be pushing it as the biggest breakthrough in planter design. John Deere builds quality equipment but they're better imitators than inovators.
------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: Jim NEIN
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 3:33pm
| Well said. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 4:44pm
| if you think about it....a LOT of people and companies have made millions creating add-ons or replacement items for JD to make them work better from the factory! the same is said about other brands also...but not as much! also...JD has paid out millions in patent copying/infringement, a company near where i live has been able to expand their factory from the money they recieved from JD for copying what they make! it also was in the millions! |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 5:54pm
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Back in the early eighties my buddy came up with the twin row idea. We cut two JD7000 row units apart and then I welded them back together for him. It took a ton of rods and lots of time, but I finally got it done. The trick to his working well was indexing the units so one would drop a seed then the other. Since that's 30 something years ago, some of the things we did are a little fuzzy. Normal population at that time was 23500 to maaayyybee 25000. He planted at 27-28000 total and got a very good response for that time. He went to popcorn after a couple of years and planted with a single row planter, using the twin row for beans only. At the time of twins, he had an F and was married to slow speed picking because of lack of capacity.
Sometimes, it's kinda fun to look back at some of the cobbled up ways the we used to be that "perfect" farmer! Hah!
The uncle that raised me and I took two old IHC plate planters back in the mid sixties and made a twenty inch bean planter, It was a good idea, but we had to solve the cultivator problem too. We didn't use it too many years, because we couldn't keep the weed problem in hand. As I remember all we had available at the time was Amiben and it sure wasn't comparable to modern chemicals. ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 10:06pm
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Amiben granular over the row for beans, Ramrod granular over the row for corn (Gandy row units on the planter) Allowed you to "open up" the cultivator so you didn't have to plow so close to the row. State of the art man! LOL Amiben was pretty good broadcast (liquid) pre plant incorporated but was expensive. Then came Lasso by Monsanto followed by Dual and the days of the row crop cultivator were limited. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 4:14am
IG is competly right .. couldnt agree with him more... ------------- WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer |
ILGLEANER wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 2:04pm
| This was mentioned a while back.It was said that twins worked better in northen climates. Mid to lower states could suffer losses because of heat stress caused by too many plants too close together on those hot summer days.Sounds logical? |
Posted By: CBL95
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 9:43pm
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2 years ago we planted 60 ac. of twin row corn on one of our FFA fields with a Great Plains Twin Row 6 row planter, I HATED IT!!!!! the stuff just plain would not stand up to save its life ans the SAME hydbrid planted 3 feet away stood perfectly and had massive stalks compared to the twin row stuff and what didnt fall over a B***H to combine it didnt want to run through the head and came through the combine in big slugs. The planter was a whole nother story, I thought that the whole idea of planter innovation for the last 30-35 years was to go AWAY from plates not back to them but leave it to great plains to go back to 'em. The 6 row was advertised and the dealer told us it will pull just like a six row and sent us a 75hp tractor to pull the planter with B.S!!!!! that thing pulled like a full 12 row we ended up going and getting a neighbors 1586 IH to pull it. Plus forget cultivating and if you do any "in-the-row" jobs yourself you need to make sure all your tires are narrower than 18.4 (found that out the hard way trying to spray with the AC 200) tha'ts just my experience with them and i can say I will NEVER have one for myself, but to each his own, Grandpa had a new AC planter for about 3 days and sent the "P.O.S."(I know this is an AC Board and we are still 90% AC so I don't mean to offend anyone) as he called it, back to the dealer. he claimed it wouldn't plant at an even depth on solid concrete and still won't let one come on the place. yet the neighbor bought one new also and loves it and still uses it to plant all of his 400 ac and lots of people still use them so like i said to each his own. Since you already converted your planter and that you have a good planter in that Kinze I hope you have good luck with it and if I can make a suggestion pick a hybrid with the best stalk strenght you can find!!! Good Luck! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 12:12am
| i bought an AC 6-30 planter with monitor about 20 years ago (plate type) for $60.00 on an auction. used it for soybeans. it worked good! i have had thru the years an IH,Buffalo,JD,Kinze planters for corn (various row spacings) i tried the AC planter on corn, and found it to be more accurate than all of those other brands i had used. i still use it to this day! another thing i like about it...at the start of planting time, it takes about an hour to get it all lubed and checked before starting to plant! i also have an 8-row 3-pt AC planter that i used on level bottom ground. it to was very accurate! there are some parts that need attention, and i (when i find them) buy other AC planters for parts....they are cheap, and have alot of good parts on them. almost all the parts from air champs and the 600 series are interchangable, i needed some new seed boxes as the plastic ones i had were breaking from cold/warm season to season. the air champ fiberglass boxes interchange perfectly! and they hold more seed. the Buffalo planter was also very accurate, but was really heavy! i used my 180D to plant with the 8-row mounted, and it handled it fine, but i had to stack a full set of weights on the front of my 7010 to even pick up that 6-30 Buffalo planter! and it being so heavy did not plant well on side hills, to many gaps from sliding! plus had to pump the radial tires up tight on the 7010 so it wouldn't "give" on the sidehills. i just use the 6-30 AC planter right now, have enough boxes to interchange from corn to beans, takes about 5-6 minutes to change boxes, i have it set (took awhile) to use the same spockets for both corn and beans. it took some sprockets from a different brand planter to do this! |
Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 7:48am
| CBL95 , i have read your post and was curious about some of the details of your twin row corn experience. Where i work we sell Great Plains planters most of which are twin row. We have several of the six row planters out and i know for a fact the one is pulled by a John Deere 6405 which is according to tractor data 85 HP. As for the poor stalk quality what was your population? If the twins were planted at the same pop as the 30" rows you should have had way more space between each plant with the twins, which typically would allow for healthier bigger stalks. I have seen instances where someone has tried bumping population up alot and had counter effects on yield. For instance I had a customer call wanting to know if he should try planting some corn at 54,000! Personally i dont think the genetics are there to handle that at any row spacing not yet anyway. On end rows or point rows if there is lots of crossing over then yes there will spindly stalks and a decrease in yield, but there again one has essentially doubled their population. As far as plates for the planter, you can still get a new great plains planter with finger pickup. We delivered one last week. Many new planters from all the major manufactures come with plastic plate metering systems, ever seen a White or John Deere vac planter. |
Posted By: CBL95
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 9:46am
| Well one possible reason for the hard pull was that it was loaded with 32% liquid and not exactly "perfect,dry condition" and the population was that dealer suggested 35,000 which to me seemed unreal as we typically plant 27,700 with our jd 7000. |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 10:00am
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CBL95 I'm kinda like Allisman32. First if the dealer sent me a planter and tractor, and the tractor wouldn't pull it, I'd have got the dealer not another tractor. I assume the planter wasn't set up correctly. Second did you take a population check? It sounds like the population was way to high, if you had set the conventional planter 3' away with the same hybrid for 40,000 seeds /acre I'm sure the results would have been the same. Finally, when you're doing a test plot you usually use the same planter across the entire plot to eleminate differences caused by changing metering types, depth control etc. Even if you were just using the twin row planter for demonstration puposes it doesn't sound like it had a fair shot.
------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: CBL95
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 10:26am
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it wasnt in a test plot the people of Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana gave us a 90 ac. field as a fund raiser. the the population of the 30in was 27,700 it probably wasnt the best of comparisons but that was the results of it and thats how i feel about twin row. second our dealer can be a complete #?*!%@/^ to deal with sometimes and said they had no other "rental" tractors to send us. I dont mean to stir anything and I'm sure that we did some things wrong but he asked for opinions on twin row and I gave mine |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 10:30am
| Talked with a DeKalb seed rep at a dinner meeting about row spacing. Being on 36" row corn makes one feel like the fifth wheel. He said that DeKalb is going to 20" rows in most if not all of their seed fields. 20" looks to be the next big thing to me. Then we'll drop 5 in a hill on 40" check rows. |
Posted By: Mike NEIN
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 11:35am
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Thanks for all your inputs and oppinions thats what I wanted to hear. The way I've got it set up I can plant 1/2 and 1/2 twin and 30" for my own test plots,and different populations. We probably won't go much over 34,000 most of it will be around 30,000 because of our sand and gravel up here but in the heavier dirt up it some. I guess if you don't try something new you'll never know.
Mike
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Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2012 at 12:56pm
| From all the plot tests i have seen the results of done by private individuals, seed companies, great plains themselves the twins usually win. Some soil and population conditions do show virtually no advantage but others show a very nice increase in yield. My father in law switched to twins and had a on average 17 bu ac. increase in his yields, that is money in the bank. The best part was he kept his same old corn head, and still had plenty of room to sidedress ( granted it didnt leave much wiggle room). I would recommend investing in some stainless steel wear strips for your corn head snouts if you have a poly head. |