Thought this was really cool
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46359
Printed Date: 03 Sep 2025 at 12:28pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Thought this was really cool
Posted By: CBL95
Subject: Thought this was really cool
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 10:07pm
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With all this talk about 200's and 190's I thought i'd share this. The only mechanic in my area that I would even start to trust with my 200,brought this up in a conversation about the quailty and best designs of AC's, he said that when he worked for Strickland Implement in Oakland City,IN an AC Engineer told him that AC put the most effort into designing the 200 since the wd45. He also said that AC design/engineering efforts went on a steady decline starting after the 200 and that i part of what lead to the downfall of AC. Now,how true this is I don't know, but usually if Tim says it, its usualy true??? whats your all's opinion on this |
Replies:
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 10:56pm
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Doubt it. The 7000 series was a completely new design with a lot of newer features not found on other tractors at that time. I don't think they had to do much to go from the 7000 to the 8000 series but bringing out those 7000's I bet was a doozy. |
Posted By: ACmowerguy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 11:02pm
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How is the 200 really even that different from the 190XT III? I was thinking that (from what I've read here) the 8000's were some of the best tractors AC built. Roomy, stylish, and tough drivetrains. ------------- 10 various B-series garden tractors, AC Homesteader8, 416 hydro,710 gt, 914, 916H, 917H, 920D, and many misc attachments |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 11:25pm
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I think the 200 was an attempt to keep the 190 design going until the 7000 tractor as well as the 7000 series of tractors were ready. There were improvements but it was "evolution" in comparision the 7000 was "revolution". The one thing in my opinion that AC did wrong with the 7000 series was the looks. I've owned 3 7060's and a 7080 and I think a 7060 is one of the best tractors of it's era. However the D17 & D19, D21 an XT190 or any 8000 series are much better looking. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 8:32am
| If the 8000 series had come out sooner and greeeeed at the top had been taken care of there might have been ACs today. MACK |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 8:48am
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It wasn't the product, it was mis-management. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: KenBWisc
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 8:56am
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We had a lemon 200 but the 7040 was great one!
------------- '34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting! |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 8:56am
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From my perspective the 7000 series is nearly bullit proof, we own 4 of them 1-7030 and 3 7060s and they just keep on giving, we also own a 190XT III, and it is the same thing, just keeps going. Do we treat them perfect nope, do we abuse them nope, so I can't complain. I truly don't think engineering was the problem. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 9:50am
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I don't think there was an engineering problem throughout any of the years. There is a guy near us that has a D-17 with nearly 20,000 hours on it, still has standard bearings in the engine, and the PD has never been apart. His 190XT had 19,000 hours on it when he retired it about 8 years ago, and the original 7060 he bought new has 19,000+ hours on it and just keeps going. He also has 2 more 7060's, a 7040, 7045, and an 8050. Each tractor sees around 200 hours a year and he couldn't be happier with them. Poor management is what killed the company. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 11:06am
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HagerAC, if you multiply that 19,000 hours times 60 to get equivalent road miles that is just a tad over one million miles! Kinda impressive when you think of the dust conditions in field work vs road miles, huh?
Engineering, metalurgy, modern oils!= long life! ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 11:22am
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Yeah this guy is constantly changing oils and fluids in his tractors and that is why they are still running, especially the 17 with standard size bearings and original crank. When dad was in High School he worked for this guy when the 17(seriesIII) was new and it was the big tractor on the farm then. Pulled 4-16's in heavy soil all the time, and up until a few years ago, he was pulling a 2400 gallon Knight Slinger Spreader with that same 17. He has since gotten a bigger slinger and now runs one of the 7060's on it. The 17 still sees a fair amount of use throughout the year though. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: TexasAllis
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 11:48am
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When I was in high school bailing hay with a 7000 we had to take it to the local JD dealer for some work (nothing major). I overheard one of the mechanics comment on how the AC's were easy to work on and generally very well built. ------------- 1944 Allis C 1960 Allis D-17 LP |
Posted By: bigcountry48
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 3:40pm
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You would have to take that question to the political section to get it honestly answered because, Jimmy Carter might have had a little something to do with AC shutting down. Along with Minneapolis Moline, Oliver, and Farmall. ------------- 1950 B, 1952 pulling wd, and 1954 wd45 |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 4:24pm
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Dave, I know we all have our favorites, so don't hate me to much for not agreeing with you that the D's and 8000's are prettier than the 7000's. Out in the shed there are 3-8000's and 2-7000's. One of them is a 7080 powered by the mighty 670HI engine. I have to agree that the 8000's are light years ahead of any tractor up to that point in time. Two cab filters and a throttle that fits so easy at your right hand. I do wish that could have also be squeezed into the 7000 console. But there are times in the half light of the machine shed, I look them. Their paint, now weatherworn and faded somehow doesn't seem to matter. They still bring the same smile to my face as they did back when they were new and unsoiled. They brought with them style and comfort to the farm. The 200 with its cab, heat, and AC hinted at the future. But it was the 7000's with their truly independent 540/1000 PTO, cat III 3pt, and PS trans carried us farther down the road with style. Their front grill doesn't stand up straight. I leans out forward at the top. It reminds one of horse teams streching and straining to pull heavy draft loads. The curved flared rib on the under side of the side panels shows far more style then the flat, hardend steel tinwork on the 100 and 200 series tractors. I had a 200 with cab and AC, and just like the George Straight song," I'ld Like To Have That One Back". Then came 1973 and the 7030 and 7050. We were treated to turbos and intercoolers. Horsepower with style. In 1974 power shift trans in the 7040's and 7060's made styleish horsepower user friendly. 1978, your 7000's get a black subframe. Now our tractor and company logo match colorwise. With this came luxury. Luxury that drips from the top down. Statium light and electric-remote mirrors. AM/FM stereo radios with 8 track tape players. Now I love the 8000's, I do, but I will always have a soft spot for a 7080. Driving along the highways and seeing a 7000-7060 or any of the 8000's, you have to look hard to know what they are. For me the 7080 is king. One look for the air cleaner stack tells it all. You can't tell on the 8010-8070. For me, the 7080 is like the last 220, the last D21, the last WD45D, the last CA, the last UC or A. One look tells the whole story. |
Posted By: Austin(WI)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 4:29pm
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I have heard that the 8010 & 8030 were the best of the 8000's, but the 8050, 8070 have an engine to be " a hand grenade cleverly disguised as an engine". That is just what I have heard.
------------- "Better By Design" |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 8:52pm
My opinion, find a new mechanic. He does not know much about AC if thats what he says. |
CBL95 wrote:Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 8:58pm
There is no way a D17 will handle a 2400 gal. Knight slinger. First of all, they are a 1000 PTO spreader. I have used one, the empty tongue weight alone would be plenty for a D17. Even remotely close to full a D17 would have it's front end in the air and/or the drawbar flat on the ground. I have used a 1000 gal. Better-Bilt "honey wagon" on my D17 and that full is too much tongue weight. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 9:43pm
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Seen it in action, so I don't really think you can call me a liar. You can get conversion kits to change the spreaders over to 540 PTO. His D-17 has a beefed up drawbar and bigger front tires full of fluid and weights on the front. Trust me, he can show anybody how to pull something with a small tractor. His D-17 more like a 180 than a D-17 the way it is set up. Don't believe well then whatever. The slinger spreaders are a well balanced machine, and really there isnt a lot of tongue weight, even when full compared to a box spreader. I run a 3200 gallon slinger everyday at work, and its a real well balanced machine.
Just to mention my dad pulls the 4100 and 5000 gallon slingers into the shop and onto the lot with a plain old WD NF at work. He has no trouble keeping the original drawbar straight, or keeping the front end on the ground with all the tongue weight, and a WD ain't no D-17 either. Its starting to get kind of old everytime I log into this forum and somebody is constantly calling somebody else a liar, or arguing about something else. I thought this was a friendly forum, but as of latley I have been the least bit impressed the way some members have been acting.
------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 10:55pm
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Unit 3 you and everyone else are entitaled to your opinions. Fhe beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes. I think the 7060 is among the best tractors to come out of West Allis, I've owned 3. I wasn't as happy with my 7080. The factory cabs on the 7000 and the 200 series tractors just don't look so good, those tractor look great with an open station especially with ROPS and a canopy. Compared to a 4630 the 7060 looks much better IMHO. Austin, you must have been talking to CBL95's mechanic. LOL I own an 84 8050 and an 85 8070 both powershift FWA and no exploding motors yet. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 11:08pm
Those engines were fine------------with stock FIP settings and if the coolant conditioner filter got changed on a regular basis. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: Steve Bright
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 6:50am
| I went green a few years after AC came out with the 7000 series, I had 3 of them an did not like them at the time. Had I not gone green I would have owned an 8000 series. Now years later I have a 4W 305, Still have 6 W series and 2 190's and a D-21. |
Posted By: daughter#1
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 10:15pm
http://s824.photobucket.com/albums/zz165/klien5678/?action=view¤t=wed2.jpg" rel="nofollow"> http://s824.photobucket.com/albums/zz165/klien5678/?action=view¤t=wed1.jpg" rel="nofollow"> Here are a couple of pics of the wood mock--up 7000 series from west allis. The story we were told is that one of the engineers brought his wife in to look. She told him that it was the ugliest thing that she had ever seen, and that anyone could do square. He then had rounded fenders made, she was still unimpressed. The rest is history. Personally we like both the prototype and production designs. You can see one of the rounded fenders and an alternate dash design in the photo.
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Posted By: BStone
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 5:55am
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Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 8:31am
AC had highly paid industrial stylists do the styling. Engineers didn't have much to do with it rather than make sure there was enough open area for cooling. Engineering did have a lot to do with the size and shape of the cab, however. A very determined chief engineer was responsible for the phone booth cab based on his thoughts that it would make for a quieter cab with better visibility to the sides. At a later time, I had a lot to do with the size and shape of the 8000 cab. I had to fight off the stylist over the extensions on the cab roof that provided a good place for the cab air filter and some shade for the cab. He wanted a fitted skull cap type of roof that would not have left enough room for an adequately sized cab air filter, A/C components, and the operator's head if he was over 6' tall. Good memories. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 8:54am
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427435 I sure wish you had some influence on ihe 7000 cab design, "phone booth" sure describes them. IMO it ruins the rest of the tractors line. Almost everyone complains about getting in and out of them. The windows are always muddy cause they don't have fenders. Somebody should have pushed back. ------------- AGCO My Allis Gleaner Company |
Posted By: daughter#1
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 9:22am
| Sorry Mark Did not intend to offend, It may well have been a stylist, the story was told to us by a corporate employee, and also by the advertising rep at the time. |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 9:25am
I wasn't there when the 7000 Series was done. I was at Minny-Mo working on the A4T and then the 4-150. The cabs on those tractors were "right" sized. In defense of the 7000 chief engineer, he (and marketing) were looking at the Deere cab which was supposedly quiet, but difficult to get in also. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: daughter#1
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 9:38am
| A friend of ours is a Moline man and has had both the a4t and the 4-150, Liked to run both of them, but of course the 4-150 was favored. He now runs fendt, and jcb tractors his first was a g1000 which he still has. P.S. were you invloved with the project to put an allis motor in an a4t ??? |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 10:37am
No, I was a relatively low level engineer at MM at the time and never heard of it. I've sent an email off to a guy at Allis and a guy at MM in those times, and see how much is truth and how much is fiction. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 4:37pm
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My take having purchased a brand new 7040 in 75 , and looking back .. there sure would have been a lot of changes with that cab , if i were the engineer .. ------------- WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 5:42pm
I had worked for AC from 1966 to 1969 and then went to MM when AC closed the La Crosse plant (didn't want to move to La Porte, Indiana). I still remember heading for the big AC display at the Minnesota State Fair to see their new tractors. When I climbed into the cab, I couldn't believe that they put such a phone booth on the tractor and provided such poor steps. I was in my early 30's, pretty agile, and weighed 175 lbs. I couldn't help but think about how hard it would be for a 220 lb, 50-60 year old farmer to get in and out. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 5:52pm
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An 8000 series cab is definitely a start of the art design for its time, although I have never minded the 7000 series cab, espcially the newer version. They are no worse than a JD soundgaurd cab, and are by far better than the 86 and 88 series IH cabs with the bassackwards doors. Just my 2 cents. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 10:50am
I've heard back from the former AC proving ground chief engineer. He remembers them getting an A4T for a "competitor evaluation," but not ever re-powering it. The A4T's were the first articulated tractor from a major tractor manufacturer and one was probably looked at as part of the lead-in to the 8550 design. To bad the 8550 engineers didn't pick-up on the articulation joint being centered over the middle of the drive-shafts. A lot of CV joint problems would have been eliminated and the frame wouldn't have had to be redesigned for the 4W tractors. If there is/was ever an A4T with an Allis engine, some privateer did it. The first A4T's only had a 110 PTO hp MM engine in them and were grossly underpowered for their size and weight. That could have lead to someone re-powering the tractor. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 11:51am
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I thought the black belly 7000 series was about the best looking tractor out there. Maroon belly isn't quite as good looking. The only complaint I'd have is the maroon belly tracors should have had better steps but after market steps could have been had easily also the 7050 & 7030 didn't have a grab handle on the outside. I also like the looks of the 190 - 200. I've always like their looks. The 8000 series had to grow on me for looks. My Dad says the 7000 series looks had to grow on him. He thought they looked too much like a 20 series Deere. The 7000 series were being designed probably the same time as the 200 and I don't think the 200 had a whole lot of designing to it cause most of it already came from the 190. I'll tell you this, I love my 7050 and the 190s. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 12:25pm
| Dad questions me why, but I'll take the 7080 over the 8070 on the graincart. I like the smaller cab for that job. It gives me far better view out sideways because the windows taper in at the top. Also there is no roof overhang. The 8070 has a cab post right where I need to see while the 7080's post is farther ahead giving me a larger rear side window. If only the 7080 had PS, FWA, and 516 N7 engine,-----WOW. |
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 2:37pm
Interesting observation. Back when the 8000's were being designed, there weren't a lot of grain carts in use. The goals for the 8000 cab included easy entry/exit, spacious enough for a "trainer" in the cab, 2 doors, and air conditioning that was good in the Southwest as well as the corn belt. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 3:43pm
| I'll give credit to whoever put an air cylinder on the 8000 series door. Name one guy who has run a 7000 series that has "NOT" felt the shoting pain of a door swings closed and hitting them in their side. That will make you say words that your mother thought you didn't know. |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 6:15pm
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I have my uncle's 1070 Case with #70 loader which he bought new in 1976. It was our first cabbed tractor with heat and air. New, the loudest sound was the heater blower in the cab even plowing. Not now after several years, though! But it is much harder to crawl into and out of gracefully after back surgery last fall!!! My Oliver 1855 was the easiest to mount and dismount cause the door was better positioned to the steps and you could get in and out either side! ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |