Model B horsepower & carb question
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35461
Printed Date: 06 Feb 2025 at 2:15pm
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Topic: Model B horsepower & carb question
Posted By: waynem
Subject: Model B horsepower & carb question
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 5:44pm
| This is my first tractor a 1940 Model B. I would like to order a carb kit it is a Zenith carb where do I find the carb numbers so I can order the correct kit? 2nd question I have been reading that there are 2 different horsepower ratings I think 39hp & a 20hp how do I find out the hp rating? As always everyone is so helpful to me because I am so new to this stuff thanks in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 5:49pm
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The hp would be more like 15 and 20 and yours would be 15 because it's the BE motor instead of CE. There is a round tag on the top surface of the carb toward the engine with the model # on it. ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: steigerbro24
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 6:29pm
| What do you mean by a BE engine? My B is a 1944 model. |
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 6:32pm
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A 1944 would have a CE motor. The BE is 116 c.i. and the CE is 125 c.i. 1943 was the year they changed, all the C's and CA's had CE motors. ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 6:39pm
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Wayne M, First Congratulations on obtaining my favorite AC unit, the B. Listen closely to what is said above. They are accurate. If you need a Carb. kit you can contact any of the sponsor's of this site and they will be glad to help. Let us know if there is any further assistance needed. Take good care of my favorite. Good Luck! Bill Long |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 6:49pm
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Thank you every one. |
Posted By: norm[ind]
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 6:53pm
| we all the carb kits for zenith carbs 1-800-254-3116 we ship us mail |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 8:35pm
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Welcome to the forum. There is really no way of knowing what internals are in your engine without checking bore size. It more than likely was overhauled at some time in it's life and could say BE on the block but have 125 cubic inches. Take it to a tractor show and belt her up to a dyno. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2011 at 9:55pm
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CTuck is correct. Standard 3 3/8 liners and 3 7/16 overbore liners and pistons will slip right into a BE engine block. If you can't find the BE engine block SN in the left hand engine flange look on the back of the block right near the top below the head. If you suspect a engine swap was made a rule of thumb is. A 38 B block casting number should end in a 9 or a 10. A 39 B block casting number should end in a 11. 40 a 12. 41 a 13 and so on. This pattern seems to hold true on Bs and Cs up thru the 40s. Some tractors produced early in any year may have engine block casting codes from the previous year.
Most heads have a actual casting date in raised numbers in the bottom of the oil galley.
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Posted By: Jeff Z. NY
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 7:25am
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Most kits being sold are pretty much worthless.
They have a new needle valve and seat with a new gasket. Someone is selling a better kit. I bought one years ago from a person but I can't remember who it was. His kit had alot more new parts along with 2 new shafts with brass shaft bushings and shaft seals. Someone on here might know who he is. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 9:15am
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The BE had 3 1/4" pistons, The CE had 3 3/8" pistons. The only difference in the two engines was the pistons as far as HP. You will not find one out of ten BE engines that still have the 3/1/4" pistons still if that many. The low compression BE engines had either dished piston tops or a flat top that was shorter but still 3 1/4"
Some engines with 3 3/8" pistons had pistons in them that did not come all the way to the top of the block/deck.
After 70 years the only way to tell for sure is to remove the head and measure. You might be surprised as to what you would find.
Most carburetor problems are dirt. Dirt that can not always be seen with your eyes.
Spray can carburetor cleaner is good for cleaning your hands and the outside of the carburetor not the inside of a carburetor. Consumer protection dontchyaknow!
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Posted By: Jeff Z. NY
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 10:12am
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Right you are.
You have to manually remove the dirt and that is easier said than done. |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 10:47am
| Thanks to all for the info. I found the engine numbers on the back of the block they are BE2754 Is this the correct engine in there or a replacement? |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 12:17pm
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We have carb kits in stock. Also offer carb rebuilding services if interested... Steve@B&B customcircuits@gmail.com |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 1:43pm
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waynem If the BE engine number is that low and on the back, it probably came new in a 38B. Check the casting numbers (The raised numbers cast on the Left side of the block) and see if the last 2 numbers are 1 0. The early block would not have the tapped holes for a generator bracket on the front left side. Most if not all the blocks cast in 1940 had the holes tapped for genny mounting. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 6:37pm
That engine is out of a 38 B. What is the tractor number stamped by the shifter? Do you know for a fact the tractor is a 1940? That would put your tractor number between B33502 and B49720. It is not uncommon after 70 years to find a tractor with an engine out of another tractor. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
waynem wrote:Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 7:32am
| Ken & CTucker the BE # is BE2754 the # on the left side of the engine AM-2916-10 the tractor # is B41011 the carb # is206989 on the outside & 8561 on the inside according to Jeff Z he says that carb was used in 1938 & 1939 aby more info would be helpful. |
Posted By: Jeff Z. NY
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 7:41am
| From my records that casting # ending in 10 would make the engine a 1938. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 12:09pm
| The Transmission is a 1940. Does it have a electric starter? Most 40s do. How is the generator bolted on. I ask because special brackets have to be fabricated to mount a generator on a tractor with a 38 B engine, which is what you have. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 12:26pm
Tall Spindle adjustable front axles became available in 1940. Most if not all 40s with this axle also had 5 stud adapter hubs and 5 hole semi-dish reversable rear wheels.
 Is your 40 equiped this way? |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 8:33pm
| No my 1940 is not equipped like that I have no starter or generator or battery box & my rear tires do not have 5 bolt hubs like that. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 9:05pm
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You may have a 38 or a early 39 tractor with a 1940 transmission swaped in . Do you have a water temp gauge? 38 Bs did not have one. There is no hole near the front of the hood behind the radiator cap for one. The notches in the rear wheels for the valve stem? Are they V shaped or like a half moon. 38s are half moon shape notches. Are the front wheels 5 hole automotive style? 1940. Are the hubs rivited to the wheel centers? late 38 and all 39s. Are the front wheels with hubs a one piece of cast iron with a steel rim? Early 39. Posting some pictures would help. It must have handbrakes too I bet.
Could be a 38 front half with a 40 rear half. We will figure it out soon. Ken
Someone may have built your B out of good parts from several Bs.
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Posted By: Jeff Z. NY
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 9:55pm
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I guess it really doesn't matter much as long as it runs.
Remember "One Piece At A Time" |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 7:32am
| Thanks I will check all these things out after work. I will also have to figure out how to post pictures. |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 7:34am
| Yes it has hand brakes also. |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 7:35am
| Also it has a temp gauge which does not work 1 more thing to figure out. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 8:25am
they are cheap enough to replace. Hopefully is has not corroded/rusted itself to the mount. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2011 at 8:59am
Not sure that Jeff is thinking of us, but I have been very happy with our kits. Here's a photo of one sprawled out. ------------- Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 8:26am
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Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 8:27am
| I will get better pictures later I am taking it to work to show off. I will also figure out posting pictures better. |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 8:30am
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Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 8:34am
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 4:31pm
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A little hard to see everything I need to see to date every detail but it looks like a 38/39/40 combo. I like that 37/early38 Zenith fuel cutoff jar type sediment bowl. The speck plate manifold is a correct for the age original. The early B covered spoke steering wheel is nice and correct.
She is a cutie.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 5:05pm
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And the correct police might let you know there wasn't a "B" decal used till the CA came out I believe.
She is a cutie. Ken, it's a B, what else would you call it. LOL ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 5:16pm
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I'm not real shur exactly when the gas tank with the rear mounting strap became standard. Early Bs up to 1940 for shur had a bottom rear mounting bracket and no top rear strap. Handcrank Bs used the long A & S blue and white hood transfers and no B on the nose. Are you running a underhood muffler or a straight pipe? Either one could be considered right on a handcrank B
Does it have a pto & hydraulics or a pto delete plate on the back of the transmission?
A good shot from the rear will tell me if the seat back support straps are 38 or 39 and up. 38s are wider than standard.
Curious to see what vintage the wheels and wheel clamps are.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 5:27pm
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Ken, was the shape of the rear strapped tank different than the early tank? The picture looks like the tank is too far forward or doesn't fit the support just right. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 7:02pm
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Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 7:03pm
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Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 7:05pm
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Everyone thanks for the input I am learning alot. I am running an underhood muffler. \
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 9:22pm
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Well, the rear wheels, clamps and rims are not of the two early types used on early handcrank Bs. This clamp and 4 bump rim system became standard sometime in 1940 productiom along with the 5 hole bolt on wheel front wheels. The seat back supports are the standard 39 and up narrow ones.
When you restore a B and need a replacement part, pretty near everything from any year B and some C parts will interchange by bolting in or on. Main thing is get it to run and drive. Call it a 40 if you want but overall it looks more like my 39s than any 40s I have. Have fun with it and be careful when cranking.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 9:25pm
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I found one of those PTO delete plates at Dad's when we went through his garage stuff. I wonder if the 47 C he used to have, had that originally and he added a PTO to it?? ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 9:44pm
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C Tuck
I did notice the gap between the rear of the gas tank and the top edge of the tool box. I have not tried to retro fit a strap tank to a handcranker tool box so I can't comment. To whoevers credit though, the hood line and the gas tank seam line up perfectly straght front to back. I can't see in the pix how the tank strap is fastened to the tool box.
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Posted By: waynem
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 10:01pm
| Thank you to all for helping out I think I will call it a 39. I do like the other Allis Chalmers decals my self the ones with the longer A and C & will want to replace those. I am taking it to my cabin in Upper Michigan & am going to put it to work this weekend hauling firewood. I plan to use this tractor for what it was made for work. Again thanks to all I appreciate the help & will not hesitate to ask more questions as needed. |
Posted By: beeman
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2011 at 8:30pm
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Good looking tractor! Enjoy it and take care of it. ------------- 1949 B 3930 Ford- Have owned other Orange ,green,red,yellow,dark green tractors and equipment. |
Posted By: mrheartbeat1964
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2016 at 9:13pm
| how much on a kit for a zenith 206989 this is on my 38 B, thanks billy norman my address is 110 chandley road,kingston,tn 37763 for shipping |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 8:06am
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To buy parts for your tractor like the carb kit, go to the top of the page and click on (parts etc) tab. These are guys that help support this site and sell about anything you might need. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2016 at 8:22am
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Our kit runs $34.50 + the ride if interested. Steve@B&B bb-customcircuits.com ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 6:35am
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anybody notice the Tow Vehicle? Wow and I thought I was crazy! If you're gonna just work the tractor, it shouldn't be that hard to add hydraulics. Just remember a B is a light work tractor. I'd put some weight up front if I could. A safety note, check to make suuure that your magneto kill switch works, and I have a long story about what can happen if the clutch pedal is allowed to go past the stop while running. So check to see if it's possible for it to go past the stop. If it does, PM me and I'll tell you the simple fix and the story.
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Posted By: mrheartbeat1964
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 8:25am
| On my 38b i have just had it for 2 weeks and got it running and driving. I really like it with all the other tractors me and my son have but got a question. Does anyone have a set of brake locks for hand brakes or did they not have any from the factory. Just checking and thanks for any help |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 10:18am
| They had them originally. Little flip over levers that attach with the front bolt on the brake covers. My '39 still has them but I don't have any spares. |
Posted By: mrheartbeat1964
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 10:26am
| Would you send me a photo of them so I will know what they look like and I will try and find some. Thanks Billy Norman |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 12:26pm
That is a neat picture . There are a lot more bigger cry babies then little ones .LOL ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 2:26pm
| I'll take some pics and post them for you, when it quits raining here!. |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 2:39pm
Hey Jim, whats the cost of your kits? ------------- D17 Series 1 Allis B- 1939 Allis B- 1945 |
Posted By: mrheartbeat1964
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 2:53pm
| Thank you |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2016 at 7:20pm
| Billy. Send me a Private Message with your e-mail address and I'll send you some pics. For some reason the site won't load my pics. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2016 at 8:56am
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Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2016 at 8:58am
| Here is the second pic of the latch locked. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2016 at 8:59am
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Posted By: mrheartbeat1964
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2016 at 12:30pm
| Thanks for the photos that will help me |