D17 Voltage Regulator Wiring
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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Topic: D17 Voltage Regulator Wiring
Posted By: AllisUpstate
Subject: D17 Voltage Regulator Wiring
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 9:49am
I have a quick question I am hoping someone can help me with. I purchased a new voltage regulator for my D17 IV, 12V, Positive Ground. The previous owner had it wired up improperly to negative ground, so I am going to go through the entire wiring, and make sure everything is correct.
Here's my problem. In the factory manual, the diagram for the VR show the three outputs as B - A - F from left to right. The manual shows the leftmost post going to the ammeter with an orange wire, the middle to Armature with a black, and rightmost to Field with a neutral color wire.
The replacement regulator has the three terminals labeled as L - Batt - F.
It also has stamped on the cover that it can be used with Pos or Neg ground.
So it seems the B - A posts in the factory wiring diagram are in opposite order from the L - Batt posts on the new regulator?
The rightmost post seems obvious, since it is labeled F, and is connected through a resistor under the regulator to a ground strap.
If I take the cover off the regulator, is there anything in the wiring that would tell me unambiguously which post is which?
thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 10:26am
How sure are you on the replacement regulator terminals? All generator regulators must have a BATT terminal to go to the battery, through the ammeter in this case. There are also terminals for the Field and the Armature. Sometimes the armature terminal will be labeled GEN. If your regulator doesn't have thes 3 basic terminals, you have a regulator for an alternator. The L terminal is for "load" and is not always put on a generator regulator or used. Electrical loads can be connected to it like lights, ignition, etc.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: Regen
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 10:40am
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I am looking at the I&T manual, and it has different wiring diagrams for the different series tractors. Which Series do you have and is it gas or diesel?
This will help to figure out which wiring diagram to use.
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A/C D17 Series III LPG 42911 '62
Ford 851 LPG '59
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 11:47am
Regen,
Thanks. It is a Series IV gas. I checked for the basic terminals as Brian suggested. It has only 3 terminals, and appears to be identical to the original (I purchased it as a D17 replacement), but the stampings on the new regulator read L - Batt - F, so I am not sure if the L on the new regulator corresponds to the middle post on my original.
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 12:30pm
Doesn't matter what the sequence is. Different mfrs have different designs. There should be a GEN terminal on that regulator if its for a Generator system. Turn the regulator upside down and see if there's a terminal with "G" or "GEN". It could be a 4 terminal replacement VR. The Gen terminal will run to the "A" (Armature) post of the Generator. The BAT terminal runs to the Ammeter, and the "F" terminal will run to the "F" post on the Generator. The "L" (Load) terminal is for accessories as Brian mentioned. On the "D" series, AC usually used the Load terminal for the light switch. On the D17 Series IV, power was pulled off the Ignition side of the Ign. switch to power up the lighting circuit. HTH
Steve@B&B
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 12:35pm
Sorry, I meant to say power is pulled off the Battery side of the Ignition switch to power up the headlight circuit. Fingers were moving faster than the brain waves were reaching them...
Steve
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Posted By: Regen
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 1:24pm
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In the I&T book the orange wire goes to the ammeter, the black wire goes to the 'A' side of the generator and the natural(possibly white) goes to the 'F' side of the generator. Not sure if this helps.
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A/C D17 Series III LPG 42911 '62
Ford 851 LPG '59
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 3:44pm
Steve, Regen and everybody, thanks for the rapid response.
I am more than a little dense I know when it comes to electrics. This is a replacement regulator, probably made in Timbuktu or somewhere. However, it does have only 3 posts coming out of it, and it is square and seemingly a direct replacement for the stock.
The problem is with the way it is labeled. If I ignore the difference in the sequence, the remaining problem is that none of the posts are labeled A. I only have L - Bat - F labels. Since the Field terminal is unambiguous, and it seems that the Batt terminal must go to the Ammeter, that leaves only the L post to go to the Armature.
I'm hoping the word Armature might begin with an L in Chinese. I'll try to hook it up that way, and see which way the smoke blows.
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Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 14 May 2011 at 8:51pm
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If it has a "L" terminal it should have a 4th terminal on the oppsite side or underneath.
"L" is load, as stated and cant be used as "A" or GEN. Bob
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 1:58pm
Regardless of where that VR is made, that sounds to me like a 4 terminal unit. The A terminal either has to be on the bottom of the chassis or to the side or rear of the unit. You're just not seeing it. Its gotta' be there somewhere.....
Steve@B&B
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 3:52pm
Steve, Chambers and everyone who has been helping me,
I feel like a total idiot. You guys are right! I don't know how I could be so stupid. The new regulator does have 4 terminals. The old one on the tractor had the three terminals across the bottom, and a fourth on top that wasn't used on my tractor, labelled Ground. My new one had three on the bottom - and a top fourth one, that I assumed (as in. making an Ass out of U and Me), was ground. But it wasn't - it was the missing Gen terminal. There was no Ground on the new VR, with it having the mysterious L terminal instead.
That was the good news. I spent much of the day re-wiring everything back to the factory diagram. It was a bit of a mess from the previous owners. Some wires were cut, and some used the wrong colors, etc. Anyway, wire by wire I got everything back to factory. I also polarized the generator when done by briefly touched the Gen and Batt terminals on the regulator, which produced a light spark.
However, upon starting, I am still getting no charging.
After being dense on the VR, I am now wondering if perhaps the ammeter itself might be defective? If not, then I will pull the generator, and send it out to a shop for a rebuild. Is there an easy way to test the generator output?
One thing, is the old battery was being run on neg ground for who knows how long, without any wiring changes, so maybe I should epect the generator to be toast?
Thanks again you guys.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 4:15pm
Yes, you can test it easily. Pull the belts off, unhook the wires, and run battery voltage to the A terminal. It should spin fast like a motor. While motoring, ground the F terminal. It should slow down and continue to spin.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 5:30pm
Brian,
Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 7:12am
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Most newer VR's ground through the chassis of the unit, so make sure where it mounts that the mounting area is clean and free of paint and or rust. An aux. ground wire off one of the chassis legs doesn't hurt either. Glad to hear you found the mysterious GEN terminal...
mailto:Steve@B&B - Steve@B&B
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