WD starter question
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30182
Printed Date: 06 Mar 2025 at 10:27am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: WD starter question
Posted By: Dennis IL
Subject: WD starter question
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 5:53pm
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Well I goofed up the other day! I went and put the battery charger on the WD and accidentally had it on start instead of charge. It was on for about an hour before I looked at it and noticed the coil dripping OUCH!!!!!!! I shut the charger off and took the Distributor cap off to look at the points, seemed ok but I had a tune up kit and a new coil on hand in my parts bin so I put on the new coil, changed and gapped the points and put in a new condenser as well.
Well, when I went to start it it turned over so fast it sounded like the thing was running before it actually even started and as soon as it caught and started I heard a loud screech from the starter. Now the starter won't do anything except make a clicking sound (won't engage) I gave the WD a tug with the D17 and she started right up and I ran it and drove it around cutting the edges of the field with the bushhog for about an hour non stop and everything is fine and running good.
My question is with the starter. What broke? any ideas? I have a new starter on the way should be here in a day or two so no problem there but I'm just curious as to what you may think broke in the starter? One mistake with the wrong button on the damn charger and you get all kinds of problems!!!!!!!!
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Replies:
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 6:16pm
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Did you have the charger setting on 12v or 6v ?? The starter was probably a 6v and you might have cooked it.
------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Tedin NE-OH
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 7:28pm
| I think your starter problem is not related to the charger mistake. Many 6 v starters run on 12 v when tractors are changed to 12V. Sounds like bearings or brushes. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 04 May 2011 at 6:40pm
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You had a charger on the battery, had the CHARGER set to START mode (meaning, not limiting charge current to 2,5, 10, or 20A)... but the IGNITION COIL was dripping oil? In order for the coil to be leaking, it either had some sort of physical wound, or it was energized and very hot. For the latter to be the case, the ignition switch would have to have been ON... in which case, the charger being in START mode means that it'd still charge the battery while the ignition coil was melting down... I'm thinking that the loud screech, was the starter engaging momentarily, then either breaking the bendix somehow... or seizing a bearing. Having a well-charged 12v battery hitting that starter hard under the right circumstances might cause bendix or bearing failure, but they'd hafta be well-weakened already. I'm betting that if you left a 12v charger (with so-called 'starting mode') on a 6v battery for any length of time, you'd have no battery, and a really big, yukky mess... not a really-really-well-charged battery... SO... Pull the starter and tote it into an automotive electrical shop for a checkup... and I'd be surprised if you didn't find a mechanical ailment in there PLUS fried brushes, commutator and/or a burned-out starter switch. |
Posted By: Dennis IL
Date Posted: 04 May 2011 at 9:40pm
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Dave, That's the part I can't figure out. You are absolutely correct The key would have had to be on to get to the coil but it wasn't and everything was warm including the ignition switch. That was also why I took a look at the points. I figured if the coil was that hot it must be letting juice to the points as well.
I honestly don't know what the heck all went on but I know that coil was hot and driping oil. My key switch does stick a little (you have to jiggle the key a little while you are turning it off but it was off.
I didn't trade the old starter in when I ordered the new one in hopes that I might be able to get it repaired and have on hand if needed. We'll see what they say when I bring it in.
I spent the morning looking at everything outside in the daylight and noticed the wire coating on the ignition switch to the coil was burned as well!!!!! I put a new switch on and new wires now I just have to wait on the starter to get here so I can see how it all goes.
I did start it up again today when the boys got home to give me a little tug and it started right up that way so my new switch and wires must be ok.
I don't know! what a damn mess all I wanted to do was put a charge on the battery for crying out loud!
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 04 May 2011 at 11:40pm
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Well, dunno what else to say, Dennis, other'n mebbie the coil that WAS there, was either dying (and you didn't know about it yet), or under a whole lotta stress and fixin' to expire. The one thing I WOULD be suspicious of... is the spring to the contact points. If I remember correctly, the orientation scheme of the distributor, is that battery goes to the coil, through coil, to terminal on the distributor... From that terminal, current passes THROUGH the breaker point SPRING... through contacts, to ground. I have seen on more than one occasion, where a coil failure OR a left-on switch, or pitted contacts, have caused enough heating in the breaker point SPRING (remember, it's spring steel, not copper) to get discolored from heat, and from that point on, the spring looses it's tension. The spring is a heat-treated element, and in the process of a long-term key-on or short, the spring heats up enough so that it loses it's temper. The typical symptoms I saw after that, was an engine that would start, but not rev up... and in many cases, would barely stay running at anything above idle... 'cause the points weren't closing firmly enough to make 'good' contact in the duration of closed-pointness... they 'float', and it'll sputter, pop, spit, bang, and generally be an obnoxious multi-cylinder  h0le... most guys head straight for the carb 'cause the points 'seem fine'... I still got plenty'a hair 'cause I figured that one out a long time ago.Sounds like yours escaped that bane. I'm not surprised the switch and wiring got hot. I'm thinkin' you actually got lucky, and that it would've probably died when you were out doing something ordinary. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 05 May 2011 at 6:33am
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Probably broke the nose cone on the starter or did in the Bendix or both... Key had to be on to cook the coil. If the Ignition switch stuck prior to this, it would be a good idea to install a new Ignition switch also. If it's worn inside at present, its probably shish-ka-bob now and just hanging on by a thread...
mailto:Steve@B&B - Steve@B&B
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Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 05 May 2011 at 6:44am
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My thinking is the battery. Remeber you boiled the hell out of you battery for an hour. I think that it has enough residual juice to run a coil and give you decent to good spark, only needs a very few amps at or around 4ish to 6 volts, but to even begin to spin the started you need quite a few amps. Like Dave said above, the battery is a screwed up mess inside now, with all kinds of crap between the plates making it basically a door stop. If it were me, I would unhook the coil wire, and put a spare 12v battery in just to check the starter. My WD45 has been converted to 12 in the distributor/coil only, the starter is still technically a 6volt, and been that way for years, never any problems. ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Dennis IL
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 7:10pm
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New starter is in the WD and all is well. I was hopping from the WD to the D17 all day (depending on what field work I was doing) and had no problems.
It never fails everytime I get in a hurry something goes wrong! sooner or later I'm going to remember that at the time instead of after the fact when something goes wrong!
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