D19 Diesel Cold Start Videos
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29320
Printed Date: 04 Mar 2025 at 2:53am
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Topic: D19 Diesel Cold Start Videos
Posted By: LloydCentWi
Subject: D19 Diesel Cold Start Videos
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 9:38am
I've uploaded one video trying to start my D19 Diesel on my youtube channel, I'll have a second video uploaded of it starting and running. She IS NOT pretty and needs some TLC. We've had her for 12 years and put up a lot of hay. Every year I keep thinking about re-ringing and fixing things that need to be fixed. I think I'm getting close to the do it now or else stage. Click on the link then look for the D19 video in my videos list.
http://httpwww.youtube.com/user/whspioneer89 - http://httpwww.youtube.com/user/whspioneer89
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Posted By: Rfdeere
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 9:48am
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Link to your channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whspioneer89#p/u - http://www.youtube.com/user/whspioneer89#p/u
Link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePURiPJR5A - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePURiPJR5A
The video:
[TUBE]-ePURiPJR5A[/TUBE]
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Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners,
http://www.rumelyallis.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.rumelyallis.com
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Posted By: LloydCentWi
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 10:08am
Here's the link to the video where it starts. I try not to ride the starter or glow plug button too long, but sometimes counting in your head doesn't work the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Q-FLFxLa8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Q-FLFxLa8
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Posted By: Sitesstables
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 10:22am
Lloyd that is why I count on my toes
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1965 D17 Series IV
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Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 11:05am
Lloyd that is very hard to watch.....why not use a whiff of ether and save the starter and batteries? Ether can be your friend LOL!
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Posted By: LloydCentWi
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 11:22am
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Actually I do normally give a whiff of starter fluid. How long can you use the glow plugs? I normally count to 10-15 seconds and give the starter a try. I don't try the glow plugs though if I do use starter fluid.
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Posted By: Bob(FL)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 12:02pm
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Wow, if mine started that hard I would just let it idle all the time, have you ever checked to see if the intake heater is working? I also hold the heater button while cranking mine and for a minute or so after it starts when cold.
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Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 12:34pm
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I hold thepre-heat button a minimum of 30 seconds....if below freezing it will get 40-45 seconds. I don't think you can hurt it by being on too long. My problem is I usually only have enough battery to crank or preheat...not both, so I give it a bit of ether. 190XT has good batteries so I use the pre heater.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 12:58pm
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You don't have glow plugs on a 262. They only have a preheater in the intake. You're right about not using it if you ether it to start. I think you can hit the heater for up to a minute, but I'd have to get the manual to be sure. Another thing I would try is starting with the throttle at idle. I know the owner's manual might say open wide to start, my D17D owner's says to. Not on mine though. Oil needs time to circulate, the cam bearings are oiled only from the oil running off the head. I would really recommend starting at idle, especially with a turbo.
It looks you're flooding the engine from what I see and hear. How cold was it that day? Once it did start, it sure did blubber like it was loaded up on fuel. Is there any fuel in the oil? Before I tore into my D17D for a leaking head gasket, with just a 1/2 second shot of ether, it would fire right up clear down to -15 without being plugged in. It would blubber maybe 5 seconds that cold. Nothing like yours though. Mine never knocked loudly with that small of an ether shot. Smoke was about the same.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 1:24pm
I have two D-17 diesels. First rule is be very very carefull using either with the Lavona style heads. I never use either but will usually glow the preheater for 45 seconds. If it doesn't fire within a few seconds or just fires a few puffs, I repeat the preheat cycle for 30 seconds or so. Usually fires right up then. It takes a few minutes to run smooth because the engery cells need to get hot. Reving it up will not help. This syle engine needs lots of warm up and cool down time for a long life. It will never be like the modern diesels.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 1:43pm
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I have a D19 Diesel too. Here is a few thing I noticed about yours. It cranks slow-starter probably needs brushes and bushings. I sounds like you have a hard miss, cannt tell for sure as noise can be decieving on a vidieo, but for sure youve got a leaking delivery valve-while cranking lots of smoke, no fire, and probably leaking injectors-lots of smoke after it starts and it takeS a while to clean out. Of course the compression is down too cause it aint new anymore. 3 things againt ya, cranking speed, fuel system not holding pressure and low compression. Any one can cause hard starting, you probably have a combination of all three. Good Luck.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 2:23pm
Skip, tell me more about the delivery valve. Are you thinking it's causing a delay in the pump building pressure to begin injecting? I had my injectors checked and they all sprayed good and didn't leak. They were all about 1800 psi to pop. Manual says 2000, so he set them up to 2000. My pump has a sticker from Ft Dodge diesel on it indicating it's been apart at least once.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: LloydCentWi
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 3:15pm
It has been rode hard and put away wet. It's in about the same condition as when we bought it in 1999 with the exception that the alternator and lights did work at that time. When dad bought it he had the dealer put it on a dyno. It only produced 58 HP at that time. It was about 30 degrees F this morning. When it first starts it never fires on all cylinders right away, unless it was still warm. It takes a few seconds, maybe 10-20 seconds before they all start firing. I change the oil twice a year. Since we've had it it's never overheated, lost coolant or had discolored oil at oil change time. Like I said before, it's due for some TLC. Hopefully I'll have the time and money to get started on this summer. Once i get it fixed up I'm leaving the loader off.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2011 at 6:30pm
At least you must have a good battery!
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 6:20am
Use the preheater for a good solid minute. That might help and like mentioned before check out your starter it seems just a bit slow. I think I would follow Brian's advise on running it slow and have long warm ups and cool downs. A guy I know well has a pit and excavating business and even with his much newer Cats he always let them warm up for at least 15 minutes to half an hour before he moves them and then lets them idle for a long while before he shuts them down. I've always thought of him as a real good operator and his equipment is always top notch.
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Posted By: LloydCentWi
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 8:22am
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I replaced a battery clamp and that seemed to help a lot when i started it later in the day to unload some stuff from my pickup. Where do you guys buy your engine rebuild parts or do you have a shop rebuild your engine? I've rebuilt an Allis D14, C, Ford 9n and Case VAC but haven't done a diesel engine yet.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 8:45am
Talk to Bill at Sandy Lake, one of our sponsors. I've gotten my 262 parts from them. Since the 262 is for the most part the same as it was in the D17D, research some of my posts and you'll get an idea of what you're looking at to do a good overhaul. Don't try to do it in-frame.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 9:40am
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Didn't I see a tank style block heater?Why not plug it in or replace if not working?would go a long way for cold starts.
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Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 11:47am
Yes, the rings are getting tired and the injectors are probably leaking. The suggestion about a tank or block heater is a good one--------will save you replacing the starter.
The manifold heater should be held in for a MINIMUM of 30 seconds-------60 seconds would be better. It's a lot better to use the heater once or twice for long periods than a bunch of times for 15 seconds--------using it correctly will also save wear and tear on the starter.
If it doesn't start on the first or second try after holding the manifold heater on, then give it some ether. As low as the compression seems to be, you can probably use a fair amount. DO NOT use the manifold heater after squirting some ether in!!!!
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Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
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Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 12:30pm
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Brian, the delivery vavle is like a check valve in the pump, it opens to allow fuel to go thru the distributer head to the injectors. On a roosa master pump the delivery vavle cycle for each time and injector fires, so it works alot. On an inline pump each pumping plunger has its own delivery valve. A lot of smoke while cranking and no fire in the hole is a sign of a leaking delivery valve, the pump isnt delivering the proper pressure to the injectors cause the delivery valve leaks off. Remember also that if compression is down that will also cause smoke and no fire as there isnt enough pressure to start the fire. Delivery valves the roosa master pump are notorious for leaking. HTH
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 12:37pm
That's what I was wondering. I was looking at a schematic on Stanadyne's web site trying to understand how it works. So with it leaking, does it cause a pressure loss to the injector? less pressure making for fuel not as well atomized?
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 12:45pm
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Yes, the pressure drop isnt all that much, I dont have numbers on it but durring cranking it is impearative that the fuel pressure be up to spec to start the fire. Indirect injection isnt quite so critical as a direct injection engine. With a running engine you dont notice it so much. HTH
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 1:03pm
That's what I was thinking was going on, but didn't know for sure. What I was reading about it from Stanadyne kind of made me think of it acting somewhat like an accumulator to give fuel a place to go when the injection cycle stops. That sound right? Thanks for the info by the way.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Posted By: Brad Kelley
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 1:50pm
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Looked like you had the throttle wide open when cranking. I believe the D19 manual says to set the throttle where the engine runs about 800 RPM. On my tractor that is just past the first notch above idle. Don't know what method works best on a worn out engine, but I wouldn't think more raw fuel in a cold cylinder would help anything.
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Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 3:28pm
Looks and sounds a lot like ours, I agree with the throttle being too far open. Just a side note, if you revved my cold tractor like that....................! Anyway, like the other guys have said, low compression, injection pump, and injector issues, she is just getting tied, they start like that when in that condition.
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HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
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Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 4:18pm
I agree with the tank heater suggestion. When it is below 40F, I plug the tank heater in for 1/2 hr and my diesel starts right up (w/o ether) with no blubbering, excess smoke or clattering...don't have to use the pre heater either.
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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 7:21pm
A dealer once told us to let the engine crank for a few seconds before turning on the fuel shutoff....it builds up a little heat before it gets a shot of fuel. I'd also agree with just cracking the throttle on startup.
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