Freon (R12) Substitute?
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Topic: Freon (R12) Substitute?
Posted By: Dave H
Subject: Freon (R12) Substitute?
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 7:31am
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My neighbor has a coule of systems (one combine and one tractor) that are still R 12. We are outa rat holed R 12.
Have any of you folks been using an R 12 substitute and which product has worked best for you?
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Replies:
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 7:36am
| Drain the system put 134a adaptors on pull a vacum and fill with 134a. MACK |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 7:47am
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R134 will work but you have to be careful about how much you put in it. The heat tranfer is not the same as R12 because the condensers aren't as big on a R12 system versus a R134.
Overcharge on R134 is not as forgiving as R12.
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Posted By: Gary IN
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 7:59am
| What are the high low pressure on R134? Gary IN |
Posted By: Bob in Md.
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 8:06am
| Use R134a if you know how much system holds 80% charge is usually what you put in empty system. don't forget to add oil . I use ester 100. |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 8:09am
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Depending on the ambient temp and system type, 35-50 on the low side and 150-250 on the high side with a few variables in there. Thats for a R134 system.
There will be higher pressures on a converted system.
Biggest thing on the conversion is to get the heat off the condenser, fans, airflow etc.
That's how you keep the pressures down. You will either eat a compressor, smoke a belt or blow a line if you don't.
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Posted By: Matt MN
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 9:42am
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there was a product out there called "freze" 12 that was compatible with the R12 ------------- Unless your are the lead horse the scenery never changes!! |
Posted By: wkpoor
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 9:49am
I might still have a can of that stuff. |
Matt MN wrote:Posted By: Troy
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 10:31am
| freeze twelve is what i use , you can get it from ap air out of iowa i believe, i only use it if it is a top off if system is empty change over to 134a. most of my customers always want to do it the cheap way and freeze twelve is the quickest cheapest way to top off and works really well. my opinion. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 10:38am
| thanks Matt and Troy, what is what I ws wanting to hear. |
Posted By: 48AC/WD
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 1:43pm
| R-134a doesnt have the cooling capability that R-12 did, get some freeze 12 in a can, and keep it going that way if you are able to get some. IMHO. |
Posted By: Bob(FL)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 2:16pm
| you might want to check ebay for R12 some people have held on to it and now not many uses anymore. |
Posted By: wkpoor
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 4:09pm
| My brother has 2 30lb bottles of virgin R12. He keeps it for older cars. |
Posted By: 200farmboy
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 4:50pm
| I have a like 30 cans of freeze 12 at work. We get it from AP Air. If you need more info hit me up. |
Posted By: MitchB
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 8:00pm
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We converted over to Freeze 12 and it works good. Our mechanic buys in it bulk from somewhere. He works on older cars too, so probably needs it for them.
Mitch & Barb in West MI
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Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2011 at 9:31pm
| I heard a while back that licensed refrigeration guys can now buy r12 again. Somewhere I heard they brought it back. I use Freeze 12 too though. And freeze 12 with stopleak works good too. |
Posted By: silkwood
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 7:31pm
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I have 10 30 lb. tanks of virgin R12 left from my business. I will sell
at $12 per pound in 30 lb. tanks. I also have R502 and R500. I am
located in eastern Iowa. Let me know if you are interested. |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 9:44pm
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I have used a product called "Red Tek". Our implement dealer uses it for R12 systems that folks don't want to convert, and I have used it in my Ford Ranger system. I have had good luck with it. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 11:02pm
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I've been having a problem with the F2, it keeps kicking the compressor on and off more often than should. took out the clutch this year. neighbor said it was because the condenser was too small for 134 and builds too much pressure. thought about putting a second condenser in the compartment but haven't' looked that closely to see if there's room. 8050 works good on 134 however. |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 11:17pm
| Yer F2 may have another issue such as drier restriction or plugged condensor.My F2 has worked good on 134 for the 8yrs I"ve had it. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 12:50pm
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A restriction in the system would cause low pressures on each side. Do you have a gauge set to know what's going on? If there is a high pressure cut out switch thats stopping the compressor I'd be looking at over charge or not enough airflow through the condenser. 80% is the rule of thumb. If the R-12 charge is 1.0lbs, then typically the 134 charge will be .8lbs. When retrofits were common on the automotive side, I'd usually start out with 50% of the R-12 weight and add a little at a time until the system worked well. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 4:12pm
| i didn't think it was working right. we've had the neighbor put his gauges on it, he said it is running a little on the high side. We keep the condensor clean, pressure wash it every other year. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 7:06pm
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I'd clean it again and verify that the engine fan belt does not slip, or in the case of a clutch fan make sure it doesn't freewheel too much. Once you've determined airflow through the condenser is not the problem, I'd adress charge level. Wht type of expansion valve does it have? Fixed orifice or thermal expansion valve? A thermal expansion valve stuck open will run the pressures up.
Air in the system from not pulling a deep enough vacuum or not purging the charging hose (charging with 1lb cans) also causes higher than normal pressures/poor cooling. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 9:41pm
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The problem is the evaperator is caked over on back side from dirt getting past cab filter. When it gets pluged. air don't pass through it and the temp. control thinks it is freezing and shuts the compressor off. Drop door down under evaperaror remove two screws and remove fan. look up just above windshield and i'll bet the evaperator is pluged with dirt. Get a short wire brush and clean it off while it is dry. Don't crank it up and try ac befor cleaning or you will have mud to work with.
A common problem on gleaner combines. MACK
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Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 10:14pm
| Mack, I said condensor, i meant evaporator. we take the pressure washer inside the cab every other year and when we do we take the heater core out to get a better shot at the evaporator. we even replace the temp sensor. i would bet it's overcharged or has air. thanks again. |
Posted By: bluebanshee
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 10:37pm
| I got 2 tanks of HotShot 414b (replaces a few types, including 134a) at a farm auction. Seems that would be a fine alternative?? Haven't used it yet as I have a full tank of r134a. I'd bet they had been using it in their IH 10XX tractors. |