Deutz. Would you buy one?
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Topic: Deutz. Would you buy one?
Posted By: C. Burnett
Subject: Deutz. Would you buy one?
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:02pm
| Anybody have an opinion one way or the other on the pre AC merger Deutz. I've looked at some but don't know about parts availability, rebuild costs, etc. I've heard they were fuel efficient but haven't heard much else. Would you buy one that needed work? |
Replies:
Posted By: scott in tenn
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:13pm
| My uncle has owned Deutz since the early 70's. A 4006 and now a 6006. Both have been very good dependable tractors, and yes they are easy on fuel. I overhauled the 6006 for him and didnt have a problem finding parts. In our area of Tennessee, Duetz is starting to make a come back as the New holland dealer is selling them now. Hope this helps. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:16pm
| Wouldn't pay more for one than it's worth in scrap since that all those motors are good for. Our R52 has one and that is the weak point in the combine. They may be easy on fuel but heavy on headaches. |
Posted By: ChuckLuedtkeSEWI
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:21pm
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My dad has a 4006 as well. He used it on the farm with a loader for many years and when he got out of farming sold it through a local dealer. Found it again last summer and bought it back. Other then some minor problems(bad ball joint, alternator shot, leaking power steering box, tires), it ran like a top. My dad had all the minor things fixed and new tires put on all the way around. Seeing as this was the only tractor my dad bought new, and it survived on the farm when my brother was helping run things as he was (and is) very abusive on things, I would say you can't go wrong with one. I wanted my dad to buy it back as he used to have a garden tractor seat mounted on the fender for me to sit in when we baled hay and I was too small to help stack. They are very easy on fuel. Every one I have ever talked to has said that about them. ------------- 1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221 |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:22pm
| I had a Deutz motor I installed in a Uni Harvester after the GM diesel boat anchor blew for the second time.The Deutz was a good dependable motor with plenty of power for its size.The only problem I can see is parts availability as there are not many Deutz dealers in the country.Anyone I have ever talked to that owned a Deutz has told me they would buy another if they only had a Dealer close . |
Posted By: Denis in MI
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:32pm
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I have wondered about them myself. I have seen 4x4 models around 50hp sell at local farm auctions for around 2000 and thought that that seemed cheap for a 4x4 tractor but I haven't been brave enough to buy one. I heard the engines ae easy on fuel but I am not sure about the air cooled part. ------------- 1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14 |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 9:45pm
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Deutz was bought out by the Same-Lomborghini-Hurlman group and are now known as the Same-Lomboghini-Deutz group. They used to use air cooled engines and AGCO's first tractors were of that lineage and air cooled. Now they just have the water cooled diesels. Their engines are still very good and their solid tractors. Negative: Their resale will be bad. They tend to be lever happy but some of the more advanced machines will compare to any other manufacturer. Positive: Big plus is they are NOT a publicly traded company so they will care more for the customer than others. If my tractor sells I will probably get an AGCO GT which is essentially a Deutz painted orange. It's an AGCO and orange but I can get parts from my local family owned Deutz dealer so yes I would buy one. Solid tractors. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 5:10am
| I wouldnt be afraid at all to buy one , I put some hrs on a 6275 ,it was a good pulling tractor , the engines are some of the best out there , with decent matinance they run for ever ; have some lulls with the motors at the real job and they are going great ; Deutz dealers are around and Ive heard the parts are better than it used to be , and there are more dealers popping out too |
Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 5:22am
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Victoryallis, You have to keep the motor CLEAN. In combine that chaff will get in those fins and even start a fire. A VW on steroids is what the motor reminds me of. ------------- "Burgie" |
Posted By: Wade (IA)
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 6:06am
| My FIL bought a 9170 this winter. It's quite a horse for the money and even that big motor is easy on fuel. It does take a football field or 2 turn it around though.... |
Posted By: John WV
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 6:07am
| My dad had a 9006 Duetz that I used EVERY day for 30 years never done anything to it but change the oil The dealer in winchester that he brought from grow up in germany during world war 2 and he said that the motor is the same motor that the germans used in the tiger tank. and every easy on fuel it held 30 gal. I never seen any other tractor like it . there are no dealers around here or there would be one setting in my sheld right now. yes I would buy one in a heart beat. |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 6:57am
| Its a nice motor to have, since you dont have to worry about a radiator but like its been said you do have to keep them clean. 9100 series are pullin machines and easy on fuel. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 7:17am
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If you treat them right, and proper maintenance is given, they will run forever. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 7:22am
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Allis dealer that I worked at had a 9170 FWA for their own farming and it was trouble free except for a piece of silicone that was floating in the fuel tank for a while and a loose hydraulic line under the cab. I didn't like changing the oil filters as they were in an akward spot and always made a mess. It was about the easiest starting and smoothest big diesel I've been around. Before and after every season I would take the covers off to blow out the fins but not once was there any amount of debris in them. They really liked that tractor but it did take some ground to turn around compared to the 8000 FWA series they had. They also had a 7085 that they really liked and it was a comfortable tractor to drive and very quiet. Now the 7120 and 7145 Deutz-Allis tractors, although they had good engines, were a little weak in the transmission and the neighbor had one that he pulled the drawbar right off of. Then the repair manuals we had for these were so hard to understand. The customers who had combines with Deutz engines preferred them over the later Cummings too. They had better torque and fuel economy than the Cummings. The 4 years I was there I only heard complaints from the farmers who never owned a Deutz engine. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: John (C-IL)
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 8:18am
| I have a 4006D that my FIL bought and I inherited. That thing is a great tractor and will pull like a little dynamo. I have pulled a 6 row no til planter with it and use it as my main bush hog tractor. I've looked to buy another one, but can't find one that is reasonably priced. If the junk I am looking at is worth $6000 then mine must be worth $10,000. |
Posted By: Russ SCPA
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 4:50pm
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I have 2 Deutz Allis tractors and an R 50 with the Deutz engine.
Would I buy another one? YES, over anything available new today.
|
Posted By: gleaner1
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 5:12pm
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Our farm switched from MF and Deere to Allis during the Deutz era, never had anything Allis before, Back in the day,we had a 7085 Deutz Allis, R50, and R52, all with Deutz air cooled motors.fantastic motors they were, had to keep cooling fins clean always.Looking back now we may have been better off if Deutz remained the ownership over the whole Agco fiasco. Lets see now, when Agco took over we still had Deutz engines, then detroit, then sisu, then cummins, then back to sisu, we all complain of color and name changes, look at how many brands of engines we have gone through. AGCO A Global Clueless Operation.
------------- ALLIS CHALMERS "The color is orange" |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 6:01pm
| We all know that when it comes to operation and routine maintanance its one extreme or the other. Some people respect their investment for what it is and care for it while others run the p*ss out of their equipment with little or NO maintanance. I have only heard great things about these motors!!! Yes the Gleaners needed to be kept clean but wasnt that in the owners manual?? Ryan |
Posted By: orangepower
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 6:36pm
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dad has a dx 160 fwd and a da 9150 fwd. both very dependable tractors, use the 9150 as a planter tractor, and have never put a wrench on it in the 10 yrs we have owned it, the dx 160 had one problem 4th gear had some wear and would go past where it should and stick in 4th a couple of times we have owned it for over 15yrs bought it used with 5000 hrs on its, been very good.
------------- 45 diesel puller, 45 gas puller, ca puller |
Posted By: MUM FARMER
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 7:17pm
| Hi Ive owned 9670 9190 9130 7085 6240 and the big block 6 turbo irrigation pump small block 6 irriation pump V8 naturaly aspirated irrigation pump all excellent running engines just keep the fins clean check for mice and there nests also still have the pumps 9130 7085 and the 6240s |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 7:49pm
| Seriously are you high???????? We blow that p.o.s out every day or so our problems aren't from not blowing it out. The motor keeps us sitting on pins and needles. We have even considered junking the motor and putting a Cummins in it. I wish the 52 had the same motor as our 7060. The 7060 was rescued from sitting in a fence row for 3-4 years when we bought it threw fresh batteries in it drove it home 100 miles change fluids and put it to work. The farm it came off had nothing for a maintenance program a little TLC and it is serving us well. I have a uncle that had a 100 06 he wasn't impresssed with that either no way to pre heat the motor for winter chores. The air cooled wonder has spent more time apart than our 6 tractors combined. |
Posted By: MUM FARMER
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 8:33pm
| In comparrison I have 8070 8050 4w220 4w305 and the 9670 would run circles around all but the 305 and if you put the 9670 side buy side with the 305 it wouldnt be very far behind the big six 574 will really run but will eat 12 to13 gallons an hour |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 9:41am
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The real Deutz tractors are good for livestock work but are not really a heavy tillage pulling machine. The Deutz Allis 9100 series however are well suited to heavy pulling with the White transmission/rear end.
I have run Deutz engine in Deutz Allis tractors and in mud pumps and generators in the oilfield and always found them to be a good engine.
|
Posted By: 427435
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 10:00am
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Deutz used to like to push the fuel efficiency of their engines. During the last days of the "real" Allis-Chalmers, I spent some time looking for alternate engines to use in place of the Harvey engines. The Deutz bare engine fuel consumption maps were nothing special to look at. The B and C Series Cummins engines (new at that time) were significantly better. The reason the Deutz tractors had good fuel efficiency in Nebraska tests had a lot more to do with low parasitic hp draws of their tractors. Their hydraulic systems had very low output and their cooling systems weren't designed to handle the high ambient operating temperatures common in much of North America. Their tractors of that era didn't offer shift on the go transmissions either, which do add slightly to parasitic hp loads. The lack of those features made for good looking fuel economy numbers at Nebraska, but limited the real productivity of those tractors in many North American applications. ------------- Mark B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel, GTH-L Simplicity Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not. |
Posted By: macec3(TX)
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 10:08am
| Neighbor has one. Called a dealership that sold them at one time. Asked about filters. Parts man said he would have to dig out his old parts books and call him back. Never heard anything from the dealer. |
Posted By: Troy
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 10:31am
| deutz engines are ok when used in the right area, they actually will last longer than a liquid cooled engine, we have put them on the dyno in 95 degree weather and you can pull the dipstick and the oil is warm to touch not burning like a liquid cooled engine, thats what makes them last longer, not to say they dont fail because they do but usually it is because the fins get plugged from debris either from a valve cover leak that was not fixed or fuel leak causing jugs to get plugged. we have overhauled a lot of deutz engines and have rarely been in the bottom half, and they are not cheap if you use genuine deutz parts but then again nothing is. the killer was knowone believed in the air cooled engine when allis and deutz merged and then they went backwards with the introduction of 9100 series with the old over under tranny when they had a good 6 speed powershift, so we lost a lot of customers, then they tried to paint them orange but it was to late. my 2 cents! |
Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 10:42am
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I think overall the Deutz motor is a very good one. Would I ever own one? No, just not for me I guess. Parts are harder to come by and expensive if you find them, but it seems all repair parts are now days. I've seen all the problems of them in the combines and as for irrigation motors the mice love to build nests in air chambers in the winter. The parts books we have for our irrigation motors at work are written in German. Basically when you need parts for one and it's something that hasn't been written down in the book in English over the past 25 years you have to call the supplier. They won't speak to you without a model and serial number off the motor. ------------- Matt Folkers FOLKERS RESTORATION Restoring vintage things to last so the future can enjoy our past. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 5:27pm
| If these are so great why are some dealers afraid to take the air cooled Gleaners in on trade even? My other point is if they are so great why don't we see more of them? In recent times how many Duetz's do you see compared to Cummin's, Cat's, Deere's or Detriot's in stuff made by smaller manufactures. I know of two Duetz tractors in the county that are junked because it cost more to fix them than they are worth. Granted you have that with any brand with any brand but I doubt 1/3 of the AC's, IH's or Deere's are just given up on for that reason. Like the hired hand says about different stuff "there's a reason they don't do it like that anymore". |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 7:48pm
Some reasons........foreign built by a foreign company using air cooled diesel technology which was and is foreign to the farm market in the US. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
victoryallis wrote:Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 8:04pm
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The forrest green Duetz were simple but crude, I used a 10006 that belonged to a friend of mine back in the 80's and I didn't care for it.
It was a little better on fuel than my XT190 but not by much and the clunky 3pt and hydraulics left alot to be desired, the controls were willy nillie with no thought or design to them, and for a 100hp tractor, well it didn't pull like one. It had no weights and I don't know if it had fluid in the tires. so that didn't help.
I doubt 30 years later it would be any better, as far as parts go do you know of a Duetz dealer in your area? Can you get Duetz parts through AGCO?
|
Posted By: denwic
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 8:34pm
| Use to be several Deutz around here in the 70's & 80's, a friend of mine had a 3006 he used in the landscaping trade, he could brake a anvil with a glass hammer, he knocked a hole in the oil pan (cast iron) with out knowing and run it till it locked up, figured well thats it for this engine. My buddy said lets see what the crank looks like, so dropped the pan and bearing caps, took a welding tip on the torch, melted bearing material off crank and not a scratch, top end looked good, put new bearings in and I guess its still running today. Never cared much for the tractor but what a engine. |
Posted By: Dean/MN
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2011 at 8:40pm
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I have a 3cyl Deutz 42hp in a Vermeer puller that I've had over 10 years and never had to do anything other than change oil in it. It is good on fuel but does not like to start very easy when temp gets around freezing.
------------- HD16,917H,185,7050,8030FWA,8050FWA |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 2:40am
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we had an R62 with a twin trubo V8 Duitz. I kept it clean, one day I noticed an oil leak from the rocker box on top of the head. Lifter had broken on the cam and ground the cam off, broke the rocker arms and put a hole in the rocker box. So for $9000 it got a new cam, lifters and gasket set. Every penny saved on fuel was spent on parts. Bad luck.
I liked the engine, good on fuel, power and torque rise like the others don't have, though it was around 780 cubes, 100-300 more than engines used in comparable applications. There's a lot of problems with cooling systems, water pumps and radiators, but no problems with a Duitz, blow out the oil coolers and cylinders now and then.
I came over the hill one day to see the R62 in a black cloud with the hood open faceing some 40 mph winds. Good thing dad got the hood open to try and put out the fire, at least the wind force fed it better. The Duitz was running on the ground in pools of molten aluminum, I was done worrying about it, major relief. We saved the fuel and cell phone and never looked back.
There's a few Duitz tractors around here, 80-100 hp range. Tough little farts, fun to abuse. There's equipment to suit everyones expectations, but that doesn't mean I want one. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Dale-OH
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2011 at 7:51am
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We have had more problems by far out of a Cummins engine than a deutz in a combine. Dont know that we ever put a deutz in under warrenty but only put or overhauled 5 cummins under warrenty in R62 combines.
Sold hundreds of deutz-allis tractors. Use a 9170 on the farm to pull planter, you will be hard pressed to find a better running more reliable engine.
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