What Gleaner engine do I have in my D19?
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Topic: What Gleaner engine do I have in my D19?
Posted By: nowaktj
Subject: What Gleaner engine do I have in my D19?
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 10:04am
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This tractor has a grey painted gas engine in it. The tag is gone from the engine.
The bore is approx 3.5 inches with a stroke of approx 4.3 inches. My math gives me a displacement of around 250 cubic inches.
The casting on the block says Feb 1966.
Will this block accept 262 inch sleeves...and does it have the same crank as a 262?
Thanks in advance,
Terry ------------- D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G |
Replies:
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 10:21am
| Should be a 262 in a D19. Gleaner had 230&262 gas engines.Internal parts are interchangeable however I think someone said o-ring grooves are in block on 262 and in sleeve on 230. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 12:00pm
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Could it be a 250 Cu In Chevy? I know they used them in a lot of other farm equipment. 3.562 bore and 3.9375 stroke
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: nowaktj
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 2:05pm
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No, it is definately a "Buda" block with sleeves. In fact the OD of the sleeve that I have from a 262 engine matches the OD of the sleeve in this block. If I take the small side of the measurements, I calculate displacement at 242 inches cubed.------------- D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 8:12pm
| G-262 is 3 9/16" bore by 4 3/8" stroke....I assume the G-230 was 3 7/16" bore by 4 1/8" stroke. I also assume the block (by 1966) was the same between both G262 and G-230. I do not have any parts books to support that theory. |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 9:25pm
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The blocks are not the same, the 3 9/16 sleeves will not fit the 230 block I have here. Also with the 4 3/8 stroke crank, there are flats cast into the cam to clear the rods. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 10:20pm
| If the water pump is mounted on the block, the blocks will innerchange. If it has a full flow oil filter the 3 9/16 sleeves will fit the block. MACK |
Posted By: nowaktj
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 7:05am
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Water pump is on the block. How do you tell if you have a full flow oil filter?
I'm beginning to think this is a 230 engine with my error in calculating displacement occuring with me measuring the piston depth only at BDC. I'm thinking that if I rotate it up to TDC it isn't flush with the block. Well, I'll know for sure when I head back home and work on it again this coming weekend. Thanks for the help! ------------- D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 7:13am
| Full flow oiling system was in effect even before 1966. My experience on these is pretty limited but, I think all 262's (gas or diesel) are Full flow oiling. Only the D-230 used in the WD45 diesel had the dual oil filters that had the wooden stick inside them......I think. |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 8:18am
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OK, my 230 engine is from an early 45 diesel with the head mounted water pump. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 11:30am
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I agree with DrA that all 262's are full flow oiling. The only differences I've been able to uncover in the research I've done is early 262's have a cannister oil filter that you replace a cartridge in. Later model 262's use a spin on filter. The only internal difference is early 262's only have a block mounted oil pressure relief valve. The original A-C shop manual gives an engine serial number where a 2nd relief valve is added to the tube running from the oil pump to #6 main bearing to feed the engine. It is also advised to add this updated oiling system to all engines when service requires oil pan removal, or other internal repairs.
Another thing I've found is a late model 262 block with a block mounted water pump can be used to replace an earlier style block with the water pump on the head by making a simple block off plate to cover the hole. The head mounted pump style head cannot be used with a block mounted pump due to interference.
I also notice that the block mounted pump has an additional hole, for the turbo drain back. I'm guessing that the water pump change probably coincided with the D19 introduction. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: nowaktj
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 6:56am
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Well guys, after rechecking the stroke I discovered I needed to subtract some at TDC. Anyway, the engine is a 230 in^3 engine.
I was talking to Skip (an expert on these engines out of Iowa) and he said this block will not accept 262 sleeves solely due to the fact that the 262 block has an oring groove cut into the block vs being cut into the sleeve on a 230 block.
So...on to plan b as this 230 in^3 block can not be the basis for which I build a 262 diesel off of. ------------- D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G |
Posted By: Lester
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:08am
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All one has to do is overbore your 230 sleeves and use 262 pistons. Every thing else will interchange. |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 2:15pm
| May not want to bore the sleeves that big.There is a reason the 262 has o-rings in the block. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 4:23pm
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A 262 sleeve measures .139 in the o ring area. I guess it all depends on how thick a 230 sleeve is. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Lester
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 4:25pm
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I had the 3 and9/16 overbore in my 45D for years and with a turbocharger with it and no trouble . The shape of the outside of the sleeve makes no differance , Buda just redisigned the sleeves and that part of the block in later blocks. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 4:28pm
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I've heard that a 262 crank in a 230 makes a 252. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: nowaktj
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 4:57pm
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Well, the online Agco parts book for a 230 in^3 gas engine shows the same part number as the 262 in^3 D19 diesel engine. So, that isn't true. It also shows the cranks are the same for the two engines. I wonder if that is true.
I can't just use the 262 Sleeves because there is no groove for the oring in the 230 block (although I can't confirm this as I have not personally pulled a sleeve).
Anybody out there have a good 262 Gas or Diesel block they are willing to sell? ------------- D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 8:46pm
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Don't bore the 230 sleeves to 3 9/16 If they are the early ones that have the orings on the sleeve. Seal power at one time made 3 9/16 bore for the early 230 block but they used a flat rubber ring that looked like a rubber band. I think I still have some of the rubbers.
If it has a oil filter base that bolts to the rear left side of the block with 4-1/2" bolts and a place for a water pump on the block the 262 sleeves will work.
What Dr. Allis said is 100% correct. MACK
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Posted By: nowaktj
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 12:04pm
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Well guys, I pulled the sleeves out of the 230 and the orings are in the block. Sure appreciate the help you guys gave me on this. Now...any advice if the crank is the same...Agco parts book says they are.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Terry ------------- D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 6:38am
| According to all my specs, the 230 is 4 1/8" stroke and the 262 is 4 3/8" stroke, so they cannot be the same crank.....parts book error. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 8:26am
| 262 crank (4 3/8" stroke) in a 230 bore makes 244 cubic inches...1/2 of 4.437 is 1.72.....1.72 x 1.72 x 3.14 x 4.375 (stroke) x 6 cylinders is 244 cubes. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 8:39am
I think you meant 1/2 of 3.437 is 1.72 ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
DrAllis wrote: