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1960 Roto-baler with Overdrive

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=205276
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2025 at 6:25pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 1960 Roto-baler with Overdrive
Posted By: wjohn
Subject: 1960 Roto-baler with Overdrive
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2025 at 7:47pm
I found a slightly better candidate for fixing up than the $50 Roto-baler I bought last year. This one is a 1960 white top with overdrive.

The roof is slightly bowed in from someone probably storing something on top of it, and the safety shields over the intake are missing. Otherwise it seems to be in good shape and has spent most of its life inside. I am going to have to break down and get belts for it - they didn't look bad from the ad, but the lowers are delaminating.

I must be nuts to put $800 worth of belts onto a baler so I can bale and hopefully sell $100 of straw this year?








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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45



Replies:
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2025 at 8:20pm
You'd only be crazy if you try to transition it into something else, other than what it IS...Wink

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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2025 at 5:27am
They actually made fewer white tops with overdrive than number 10's. I have some barely used spliced bales if you need some


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2025 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by dr p dr p wrote:

They actually made fewer white tops with overdrive than number 10's. I have some barely used spliced bales if you need some

That is an interesting point - supposedly 750 white tops with overdrive, vs. 1500 #10s? Of course, an unconverted #10 would still be much rarer. I'll send over a PM about belts.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: nickia
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2025 at 10:27pm
and the over drive does?



Posted By: Dennis J OPKs
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2025 at 6:33pm
Overdrive?  Also, my question, been around them but they were "not overdrive".


Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2025 at 7:53pm

Isn't that the Reversing Gear?


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2025 at 9:19pm
It kicks in to increase the speed during the twine wrapping cycle, then kicks back out when ejecting the bale. It just sped up the wrapping by a few seconds. I'm pretty sure I've seen a video of one in the field on YouTube but I'm not sure I could find it again. They talk about it briefly during the Roto-baler history walk at the Orange Spectacular:
https://youtu.be/O1a9mwi2nUQ?si=tKdffDsm1bfWGfFw&t=1395" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/O1a9mwi2nUQ?si=tKdffDsm1bfWGfFw&t=1395


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2025 at 8:09am
Originally posted by wjohn wjohn wrote:

It kicks in to increase the speed during the twine wrapping cycle, then kicks back out when ejecting the bale. It just sped up the wrapping by a few seconds. I'm pretty sure I've seen a video of one in the field on YouTube but I'm not sure I could find it again. They talk about it briefly during the Roto-baler history walk at the Orange Spectacular:
https://youtu.be/O1a9mwi2nUQ?si=tKdffDsm1bfWGfFw&t=1395" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/O1a9mwi2nUQ?si=tKdffDsm1bfWGfFw&t=1395
Speaking of Hutchinson, are you going to be in attendance this year?


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2025 at 3:50pm
The need for speed is just part of a man....


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2025 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by IBWD MIke IBWD MIke wrote:

Speaking of Hutchinson, are you going to be in attendance this year?

I hope so! I won't be bringing anything to show, but I'd like to get up there and see folks again and buy another truckload of parts. It will depend on how much vacation I have left after farm activities. You going to be up there again?


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2025 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

The need for speed is just part of a man....

Ha! Ideally the bales would shoot out the back quickly onto a rack too and I'd be baling in record time... but can't have everything. I have always wondered if anybody ever made a tow behind sort of drag accumulator to group a few bales together in the field.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2025 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by wjohn wjohn wrote:

Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

The need for speed is just part of a man....

Ha! Ideally the bales would shoot out the back quickly onto a rack too and I'd be baling in record time... but can't have everything. I have always wondered if anybody ever made a tow behind sort of drag accumulator to group a few bales together in the field.

Back when I was farming, I took a 4 wheeler with a snowplow, start in the middle of the field, and drop the plow to an inch or so off the field, start pushing the row of bales toward an edge.  When I couldn't push no more, I turned around and pushed toward the other edge.  Then pushed from the edge toward each pile in the middle, the resulting piles might be 30, might be 50 bales.  Sure saved a lot of labor and walking...Wink


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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!


Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 8:00am
back when Dad still had a Rotobaler, my oldest brother would gather the bales with a Farmhand F10 mounted on a WC. My other brother and I would be up in the hay mow stacking them.  Of course it was always the hottest day of summer…not the slightest breeze either.  Sweat like an old mule!
Later, Dad got an F20 to mount the Farmhand on.  It was better suited for the task beings it was heavier and you sat up higher. (forget any semblance to “speed-shifting”)
 We stacked a lot of hay using that rig, then later we stacked chopped hay in a cage.  The D17 Diesel & #50 chopper did the job.



Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 8:42am
Originally posted by wjohn wjohn wrote:

Originally posted by IBWD MIke IBWD MIke wrote:

Speaking of Hutchinson, are you going to be in attendance this year?

I hope so! I won't be bringing anything to show, but I'd like to get up there and see folks again and buy another truckload of parts. It will depend on how much vacation I have left after farm activities. You going to be up there again?

Oh yeah. Booked my room the day I checked out last summer. probably drag the 45 and a 73 plow up with me again. Wish it was feasible to remove the wheel weights so I could pull it in more than one class. I suppose I could take the NFE tractor, easy enough to strip 1000 lbs. off of it.


Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 12:33pm
I have a parts baler with the Overdrive all complete with the OD and related gearbox etc.If someone needed would give  them a very good price.Or take the whole baler


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 7:14pm
There is a thread we started a while back about a bale loader made by hansen. The only one i have ever seen was on a 1/16 model made by the guy out in Arizona who makes those amazing precision models. I think it might have worked ok with a number ten but with a standard rotobaler the guy on the wagon would probably be on the ground by the end of the first round


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by Gatz in NE Gatz in NE wrote:

back when Dad still had a Rotobaler, my oldest brother would gather the bales with a Farmhand F10 mounted on a WC. My other brother and I would be up in the hay mow stacking them.  Of course it was always the hottest day of summer…not the slightest breeze either.  Sweat like an old mule!
Later, Dad got an F20 to mount the Farmhand on.  It was better suited for the task beings it was heavier and you sat up higher. (forget any semblance to “speed-shifting”)
 We stacked a lot of hay using that rig, then later we stacked chopped hay in a cage.  The D17 Diesel & #50 chopper did the job.


You know, I have a Farmhand F11 on one of my D19s. That's not a bad idea... I could build some sort of accumulator for the front of it and gather up bales that way.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by IBWD MIke IBWD MIke wrote:

Oh yeah. Booked my room the day I checked out last summer. probably drag the 45 and a 73 plow up with me again. Wish it was feasible to remove the wheel weights so I could pull it in more than one class. I suppose I could take the NFE tractor, easy enough to strip 1000 lbs. off of it.

Just put some big old wing nuts on the bolts for tool-less removal and we'll get as many guys as we can to help hold everything when the weights fall down, ha!


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by dr p dr p wrote:

There is a thread we started a while back about a bale loader made by hansen. The only one i have ever seen was on a 1/16 model made by the guy out in Arizona who makes those amazing precision models. I think it might have worked ok with a number ten but with a standard rotobaler the guy on the wagon would probably be on the ground by the end of the first round

I found the thread of Armand's model and that is neat. In the last post a guy says they had one at Hutch once. I wonder if I can find any footage of it from prior year Hutch videos on YT.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2025 at 9:30pm


[/QUOTE]

You know, I have a Farmhand F11 on one of my D19s. That's not a bad idea... I could build some sort of accumulator for the front of it and gather up bales that way.
[/QUOTE]

We just used the standard “sweep” on the F11 to accumulate the bales and bring them into the Sandwich elevator, thence up to the hay mow.



Posted By: Mark (ECIN)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2025 at 4:53am
Is this the type of loader you are discussing?


Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2025 at 6:27am
I mounted a Hansen loader on my number 10 and used it at Hutch. It did not work to well. The bales fell back into the belts. I gave up on it and it now resides on Gary Agrimison's number 10 engine drive baler which is displayed every year at the Hutch show. 

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http://lonsallischalmers.com


Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2025 at 9:24am
Lon, you moved a lot farther into Wisconsin than I thought you were! Had it in my head you were going to be somewhere near Ted? You are on my radar if my big goof off trip happens this summer.


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2025 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Lon(MN) Lon(MN) wrote:

I mounted a Hansen loader on my number 10 and used it at Hutch. It did not work to well. The bales fell back into the belts. I gave up on it and it now resides on Gary Agrimison's number 10 engine drive baler which is displayed every year at the Hutch show. 

So, that means I must have seen it in person last summer and didn't register it... I must have been too busy learning all I could from the guru of breaking down and hauling Rotobalers on trailers. I'll have to pay more attention this year.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2025 at 7:25am
Originally posted by IBWD MIke IBWD MIke wrote:

Lon, you moved a lot farther into Wisconsin than I thought you were! Had it in my head you were going to be somewhere near Ted? You are on my radar if my big goof off trip happens this summer.
I hope you will be able to stop by. I am always somewhere near Ted.

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http://lonsallischalmers.com


Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2025 at 7:27am
Originally posted by wjohn wjohn wrote:

Originally posted by Lon(MN) Lon(MN) wrote:

I mounted a Hansen loader on my number 10 and used it at Hutch. It did not work to well. The bales fell back into the belts. I gave up on it and it now resides on Gary Agrimison's number 10 engine drive baler which is displayed every year at the Hutch show. 

So, that means I must have seen it in person last summer and didn't register it... I must have been too busy learning all I could from the guru of breaking down and hauling Rotobalers on trailers. I'll have to pay more attention this year. Yep, we walked right by it. The good news it will be there again this year.


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http://lonsallischalmers.com


Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2025 at 7:31am
Lon, have a calendar out to plot this summers activities. Need a week or so for the 'goof-off' trip.


Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2025 at 9:00pm
Theres actually a good chance this baler rolled off the assembly line as a #10.  There was a number of balers sitting in inventory at the LaPorte plant that were never sold.  When they realized it was a flop they converted them to fast wrap balers, gave them different serial numbers and repainted them to the current colors.  Notice it has the #10 axle.  There were some leftover #10 baler parts that were assembled as fast wrap balers.  Once all of the parts were used up there was no longer a fast wrap option.

Many roto balers have a dent in the hood, it is believed to be from a knot in the twine catching as it got caught in the guides in the roof.  I have heard it happen and makes a loud noise.  

There are a few Hansen bale loaders out there.  I have one, it came off a standard baler.  Allis-Chalmers did offer it as an option but only for the #10 baler.  I'd have to check but I believe there was a guard that could be installed to prevent the bale from falling into the belts.

Congrats on a great find!  

Jim


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An open eye is much more observant than an open mouth


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2025 at 7:21am
I think those are the pick up"feet" for a number 10 as well


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2025 at 8:43am
Interesting. The serial number on this one is 74430, no C visible... But I hadn't ever heard about the factory possibly reworking ones they had and putting different SNs on them until now.

What makes the axle a Number 10 vs. just a later production normal Roto-baler axle?
And where should I be looking at for the pick up feet difference?


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2025 at 8:34am
Drp asked me to post these pictures. 
#10 shoe
Usually an tell a conversion because the gearbox still has pulley for second conveyor 

Regular axle

#10 axle



Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2025 at 6:28pm
Mikez and dr p, thank you. I had to go out and look at both of my balers again to see the pickup feet difference but I do see it now.

I wrongly assumed the axle was a later production Roto-baler thing, but now that I look at pictures of some later non-overdrive balers, I see they don't have the two square tubes for the stub axles to bolt into. The front square tube position must have been for better balancing the #10's additional weight up front from the extra conveyor?

I have learned a lot from all of you wise folks on the forum. JimIA, the twine knot theory for the dented roof also makes sense. I wonder if I can pop it back up with a little effort.




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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2025 at 9:24pm
You are correct about the different axle location, it was a helper for balance with the extra conveyor.  

As far as the roof, I am not sure how well it will pop out.  That era of equipment was built with very good quality iron so it is plenty thick and strong.  




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An open eye is much more observant than an open mouth


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2025 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by JimIA JimIA wrote:

You are correct about the different axle location, it was a helper for balance with the extra conveyor.  

As far as the roof, I am not sure how well it will pop out.  That era of equipment was built with very good quality iron so it is plenty thick and strong.  

Thanks for confirming the axle positions. My thinking on the roof is to put a 4x4 post on a jack, take it slow, and see if the roof will pop up any. You may be right and it won't want to go back very well.


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 6:19am
Have you tried to turn it over yet?


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2025 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by dr p dr p wrote:

Have you tried to turn it over yet?

Not yet. I have been focusing on the combine but did spend the evening getting another WD-45 running. I need to unwrap a bunch of twine from the rollers, grease everything, and see what will spin by hand.

Guess I just have to hope my gearbox is okay?


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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2025 at 6:19am
One of those ones you just rescued. NICE!


Posted By: wjohn
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2025 at 7:34pm
I did turn the PTO shaft by hand the other day and it was stiff, but the conveyer chains moved a few inches so the driveline seems to be okay. Everything needs lubed up but I was happy it moved. Hopefully that means it just needs those belts put on, springs, a knife, twine, and some TLC and learning.

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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2025 at 8:58pm
That is so funny, grasshopper


Posted By: WD45
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2025 at 9:02pm
I just ran our WD WIDE OPEN and the bales tied quickly.

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Fred Dunlop, G,B,CA, WC,WF, 3 WD45`s,gas, diesel and LP,U,D10 series III, D12,D14,D15 SERIES II,D17 Series IV in Gas and Diesel ,D19 GAS and D21,170 185,210 ,220 an I-600 8070 fwd, 716H and 1920H


Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2025 at 5:33am
That is fantastic! You might want to write this day on a calendar



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