D17 blown head gasket after pump replacement
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=204678
Printed Date: 06 Jan 2025 at 4:30pm
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Topic: D17 blown head gasket after pump replacement
Posted By: Chgibson
Subject: D17 blown head gasket after pump replacement
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 10:09pm
| Well I finally got the pump rebuilt and reinstalled, bled the system and got it running for about 5 min before the head gasket started spewing coolant. Talking to an old timer neighbor I am pretty sure it's because of the timing I screwed up taking the pump off. Does that sound likely? It was running really strong when I got it running. Anyone have any good resources or advice for changing a head gasket and fixing the timing? I didn't know what I was doing taking the pump off and didn't set the timing marks. |
Replies:
Posted By: Chgibson
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 10:16pm
 For reference water was spraying out here. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 10:36pm
|
What year is it? Mine is a ‘59. Timing the pump is very easy when removing the pump. There is a timing pin screwed into the flywheel housing right behind the frame rail on the same side as the pump. Remove the pin with a wrench, flip it around and place the pin in the same hole. As you place the pin in the hole against the flywheel have someone rotate the engine clockwise with a socket on the front crankshaft bolt. When the pin slips into the hole in the flywheel it is timed. To verify, remove the timing window on the pump. The timing lines will be lined up. Do not rotate engine or the pump once pump is pulled. When reinstalling, the pump should be timed when you get it back from the pump shop. If they are slightly off once it is installed, rotate the pump to correct and tighten the mounting bolts. What was the reason for having the pump rebuilt? Was this a previously good running tractor for you with no overheating issues or did you purchase it as a non runner? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Chgibson
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 10:57pm
| Thanks for the reply. It was Running good before the pump had issues, the return was getting clogged from some things breaking down internally and folks on here said it was the pump. Unfortunately I didn't read up on things before pulling the pump and never timed it, so I just never turned the tractor over, lined the pump up with the flat side of the shaft and the dot and hoped for the best. That didn't really work out lol. Can I fix the timing now? It's a 1967 I think, when I looked it up it was series IV diesel. |
Posted By: Chgibson
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 11:00pm
| Note: it was running fine but I had not had it long. So it's a bit hard to say and the temp gauge doesn't work. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 11:03pm
| probley wasnt fireing all the cylinders good before the pump was done and now their is good combustion preasures and the head gasket was allready tired |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 7:45am
| DB-series injection pump remove/install is not hard, provided you did NOT remove the pumps drive shaft from the engine !! There is really no need to even check or set the timing if the engine has run for years and ran just fine. You orientated the "dot-to-dot" on the drive shaft and the socket inside the pump?? Then all you have left to do is look at the two nuts and their washers that hold the pump to the engines front plate. The holes on the pump are slotted, to be able to change pump timing a few degrees either way. The nuts and washers leave a mark on the pumps slotted holes. Put it back where it was and you are timed where it was before, which is usually pretty close to center on the slots. The fact that you had it running indicates the timing is probably very close, as they are NOT a great cold starting engine. A leaky head gasket on one of those engines?? Take notes when you make the repair. You might get to do it again down the road. Your biggest concern on the pumps install is keep a close eye on the engine oil level and make sure it stays where it belongs. If you gain engine oil you have rolled over the first umbrella seal on the pump drive shaft. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 9:00am
|
Those umbrella seals are a bear, had a hell of a time on my 6080. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 9:13am
| The last pump I installed after an OH (F-2/6080) I found an Oring that would roll right on top of that first umbrella seal to keep it crushed. Sprayed WD40 all over the seal and pump bushing and it slid right together. Pulled pump back just enough to hook the Oring (now laying in-between the two umbrella seals) and pulled it in two to remove it. Slid the pump back into place and it was the easiest install I have ever done in 50 years !! |
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 9:23am
| That's a great tip Doc, will have to keep that one in mind. There is 1 or possibly 2 Roosa's around here that should go to the shop and those umbrella seals scare me. Pump on my 856 is dripping from around the throttle shaft.... |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 10:02am
|
The 856 won't have umbrella seals, it's seals are in the drive adapter. When I do those I have the customer send the drive to me also so I can reseal it also. Also, when I rebuild a pump that has cup seals, I offer to loan out my tweezer tool that aids in compressing the seal. I really like the oring idea from Doc! That guy has all kinds of great little tricks. The D17 in the op, very likely had head gasket issues to begin with, doubt you could get it far enough out of time that it would run ok, but blow the gasket, with no load. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 2:52pm
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Oh boy, I am going to remember that o-ring tip!! ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 3:15pm
|
IMO the 2 gauges on an engine that need to work on a tractor is the oil pressure gauge and the temperature gauge, especially on a Buda diesel. They do not far well if you allow them to overheat. Pull the head and have it checked for cracks and warping. Buy a quality head gasket, not a cheap one or you will be doing it all over again. Sleeves have been known to sink in these engines so that needs to be checked as well. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 11:30pm
|
My d262 with turbo had a problem with leaking head gaskets, ended up putting hylomar gasket sealer, problem solved haven’t had a problem since. It’s a non setting compound that’s made for high heat high pressure areas. Was recommended by a older mechanic who said the ones he put that good stuff on never came back with that same problem. ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45 |
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2024 at 5:42am
| Thanks Ed. I should probably just get that done and it will likely outlast me. |
Posted By: Chgibson
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 8:44pm
| Thanks so much for all the replies, any recommendations on quality brands for head gaskets? I did as directed above and left the shaft for the pump in then lined up the dots and centered it back on marks where the nuts were. So it sounds like the timing wasn't really off, it was running really smooth for the 5 min or so it ran. Should I do something to check the timing, or is it probably good to go? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2024 at 9:01pm
| It's fine. |