Stuck Rings or Wear?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=203475
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 6:15pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Stuck Rings or Wear?
Posted By: Clayfoot
Subject: Stuck Rings or Wear?
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 9:16pm
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'57 D14. Pretty sure the crankcase is filled with 10w-30 and it had a new filter on it when I picked it up recently. Been going through a few things. Adjusted valves this evening after it dropped fire on cylinder #4 for no apparent reason. Also needed the new plugs that were put in before purchase gapped correctly. I've got no smoke when cold/warming up, but after running for awhile and warming up, I get smoke at a mid/high idle that mostly clears out when at full throttle (maybe just due to the cooling fan?). Curious thing is that it's from the exhaust/leaky exhaust gasket only. Pulling the dipstick and breather shows no visual blowby from the crankcase and what I would consider minimal airflow/non-visual blowby, WAY less than a typical IH IDI  Stuck rings? Common wear heading towards a rebuild? I'm planning on running a can of seafoam through it after seeing the crustiness on the rocker arms, then wire brush the flaky rust on the rockers/springs and wash it down and flush it all out with a little MMO before refilling with 15w-40.
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Replies:
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 10:07pm
I think your on the right track, Seafoam would be the first thing I would do. It’s my mechanic in a bottle and I just put some in my new to me D14 today. Tractor has been sitting for a while and even though it runs good, no smoke, I always clean them out good when I pick up something new. Ironically, I run Shell Rotella 15W-40 in all my tractors and just picked some up today when I changed the oil and added Seafoam. Good luck, hope that takes care of your issue. Make sure you run it for awhile to allow it to do its magic. It sure has resolved issues in the past for me, be prepared for the oil to be jet black. A result of cleaning all the carbon up. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 11:08pm
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I'm no stranger to the effects of seafoam, lol. I tend to run Delvac instead of Rotella. The Rotella seems to burn a bit faster. I just went out and started it again from cold, no choke, no throttle. Started right up, but of course, oil smelling smoke. Now I'm thinking valve seals... |
Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 11:10pm
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. Don't be too hasty to tear the engine down. My 58 MF35 had smoky exhaust and I was running through similar scenarios as you. Like stuck rings, wear, etc. This tractor has a busy life and shows hard work. So a worn engine is possible. Ended up being a dirty narrow carb idle circuit. I ran the carb parts several times through the small Harbor Freight Ultrasonic cleaner I have (dawn dish soap and orange cleaner). Reset idle and high speed screws, it's running better than ever ... And no smoke. .
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 4:10am
MMO is ATF. Run ATF through, and save a couple bucks.... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 6:32am
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MMO already has some kero in, which things it out Honestly costs about the same as ATF anymore. Might just wash the junk down to the pan with some of that cheapo Providence oil RK has.
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 7:25am
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compression test will tell a lot. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 8:03am
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just run it and monitor oil usage. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 9:14am
| I am working on getting a compression tester soon to test cylinder pressures. As for oil usage, doesn't really seem to be much, but more smoke from exhaust than I care for. |
Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 9:40am
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+1 one the seafoam, but don't run it in only the crankcase or fuel and expect it to do much. The best results I have are from using their 'Deep Creep' penetrating oil (or similar) directly in the cylinders. Pull the plugs, spray a decent amount in each plug hole, crank the engine over for a second or two with the plugs out just to splash it all around and coat the valve seats (some will get shot out the plug holes), then spray a heck of a lot more into each plug hole and let it sit for a few days to soak into and break up all the carbon/gum deposits. Repeat after three or four days, then fire up and run hard. It's amazing how much carbon that can clean up and how much smoother the valve action can be made. It'll be smoking and coughing for a while after you do this treatment, but once it pukes all the gunk out it can make an incredible difference on how it runs and how much blowby/compression you have. Even better than the 'Deep Creep' is the Delco penetrating fluid that GM dealers sell - that stuff cuts through everything. I also like to pull the valve cover off and coat all the rocker action and stems in penetrating oil and let it sit for a few days, because often valve sticking and low compression is from crapulence built up or caked on the stems/guides. I agree with avoiding a rebuild. If you ever do a full resto, you probably want to rebuild. But for an old D14 for the odd chores and to have fun with, there's no reason and no justification for a rebuild. Not going to make any notable difference for bush-hogging or pulling wagons/rakes. Clean up via the above method, run it for a few months, then you can judge how much more work you may want to put into it.
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Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 11:05am
| I didn't even think of soaking the pistons. I have about half a 5 gallon bucket of ATF/acetone mix I use for penetrating lube that I can get in there. Hoping to pull a 2 bottom Dearborn 3 point plow with it later this month, but I'm only doing 6000 sq. ft. Still keeping a lookout for a series 70 or 80 snap coupler plow nearby and cheap enough that the wife won't get nervous, lol! |
Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 11:22am
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Yeah, soaking the pistons and valve seats helps break up carbon in the combustion chamber, clean up the valve seats, and allows it to percolate into all the ring grooves and free up the rings (and break up any carbon in the ring grooves). Soaking the valve stems from the top is perhaps even more important, as sticky valves due to gunk on the stems is such a common problem. If you end up using your bucket of ATF/acetone, just make sure you let it sit for quite a while after putting some in, and then make sure to crank it over with the plugs out first. You wouldn't want to compress some of that fluid and break something. As it drains down past your rings it'll also dilute the oil in the crankcase a little. Not a big deal, and I recommend running it with the diluted oil for a little while anyway, just to help clean things out (no different than putting seafoam in the crankcase). But you'll need to change the oil after a little run time, and you don't want to put so much in that it dilutes it to an excessive degree. I usually count on two or three cans of penetrating oil per engine.
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 1:36pm
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Seafoam is 1oz/quart of oil, so I put 4oz in with the new oil and filter. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2024 at 5:48pm
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New symptom. I added seafoam to both the fuel and oil, as well as dumping out the sediment bowl and refilling it with seafoam. After running for awhile and driving around at PTO speed (no real load, but with the PTO shaft and belt pulley running), it developed a bit of a miss, which is where I'm assuming the miss from cylinder #4 came from before. It didn't seem to smoke as much as it did yesterday, but if at full throttle or PTO speed, there's no smoke. It's pretty much just at idle/high idle and when increasing engine speed or loading the engine, like when taking off from a stop. Planning to hose and scrub the valvetrain with the ATF/acetone mix this weekend since tomorrow will be occupied with picking up a post hole auger and Dearborn 21-2 running gear I won in an auction.
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Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 12:41pm
| Got delayed my a day due to someone running off the road and through some of my fence while I was out picking up auction implements yesterday, but back at it today. Put about 1/4 oz of seafoam in each cylinder rolled it over a few times and let it sit while I got the implements unstrapped, then started it and ran the throttle up while unloading. With the engine hot, I then dumped about a cup of seafoam directly into the detached intake tube and let it heat soak for about 10 minutes and rode it hard, breaking and varying throttle speed. Seemed to help a little, but now I can clearly tell it smokes pretty exclusively after running at idle and then throttling up, but seems to go away if you put a load on the engine, like turning on to PTO and belt pulley. Then it's just a very light haze. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 4:03pm
| Clayfoot, does your D14 have a paper canister or oil bath air filtration? If oil bath, what’s oil condition? |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 4:15pm
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It's an oil bath filter. Oil didn't look bad. Fairy clean, but I could see a little sediment at the bottom, but I didn't think it needed changed due to the color. Seafoam was poured down the intake tube after I pulled it off the canister. Done the hot soak a lot with old trucks and scared a lot of folks with the billowing white smoke when burning off the carbon in the cylinder. Not nearly as much burn out with the D14 as I've had with 6 cylinder trucks, but the tops of the pistons looked pretty decent before that too. |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 8:23am
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Pull the air intake tube between the filter and the carb. Look at the curve. If there are streaks in the metal, there is a very good chance there is a hole. A hole in the air cleaner, intake pipe or leaky hose will allow dirt to enter the air stream thus wear in the engine.
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Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 9:36am
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You need to get that tractor out in a field, and ‘work it’. Put in on a disc, or a plow, maybe a roller mill, something that will put the engine under a prolonged ‘pull’, and open that ‘ol thing up. Wide open throttle for a good hour or so of a consistent ‘pull’ on the engine. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 10:47am
| I'm working on that. Calling a fella nearby this afternoon about a 2 bottom snap coupler plow. I only have about 6000 sq. ft. to plow right now, but planning on seeing if the neighbor needs any PTO work done this fall. He's got the acreage and the equipment, but it's mostly for play and he doesn't always feel up to doing things when he the conditions are right for him to get something done. I offered to help him with hay next year so I can get some hands on experience with it and he won't have to wait on his grandkids schedules to align with the weather. |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2024 at 8:04am
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Well, I'm pretty sure it's a head gasket. Cold compression test after letting the ATF/acetone sit in the cylinders for w days, occasionally rolling the engine over, came out to this, starting at the front; Cyl #1 - 120 psi Cyl #2 - 108 psi Cyl #3 - 140 psi Cyl #4 - 149 psi Cylinder 2 may have been closer to 110 psi, but that's still a big difference between it and cylinder 3. I measured the coolant level in the radiator so next time I've got it out and warmed up for a bit, I'll have something to compare against to be 100% certain. Luckily, no mixing of fluids, and the oil flush cleaned a lot of gunk out! |
Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2024 at 8:46am
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I would do a sea foam fog. Run engine at mid rpm and up to temp and have a funnel with hose ready to blast the intake with a good fog of seafoam. When you hit it with the sea foam it may kill it. If not, kill it as quickly as you can. You need the heat soak and to be rich on the oil. Let it set about 30 minutes. Pull the plugs and clean them and turn the engine over a few times. Put plugs back in a and run it up to temp. It should smoke a bit. Shut it down and do a compression test again. This works well to deglaze and unstick piston rings. ------------- Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |
Posted By: Clayfoot
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2024 at 9:46am
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Noted that completed 5 posts before yours
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Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2024 at 9:47am
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sorry, I missed that! Been a busy morning. ------------- Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |