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Forklift lift cylinder piston seal

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=203345
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 10:56pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Forklift lift cylinder piston seal
Posted By: Weldon
Subject: Forklift lift cylinder piston seal
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 11:59am
Is there anyway to identify the seals or seal kit required for an older Allis chalmers forklift other than to disassemble the lift cylinder and measure the dimensions, then attempt to locate based on measurements?

I am thinking that there should be a common set of seals that would have been widely used for 6 ton cylinders.


Forklift is a 6 ton single cylinder ACP60 KCG. The outer diameter of the lift cylinder is 4.277” and shaft OD diameter is 3.25”. Hoping not to have to open the lift cylinder before actually replacing the seals and rings.

Machine’s tag indicates model AC60KCG and has numbers AAL133334, IS3048B, 42FRKS 11211. Which may further help identify it.

The tag on the mast assembly shows the serial E1VJ355 and catalog number 4890631.



Replies:
Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 12:06pm
Fm forklift in Fargo should be able to look it up 


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 1:05pm
I don't know about Allis forklifts, but I've got a couple Clarks and a Hyster of similar vintage, one of them uses a complex packing system, one uses a simpler system, and one uses just a 'displacement cylinder'... where there's no piston rings, it's just a guide for the inside end of the rod.

Your Allis MAY be just a displacement cylinder...  if you're not familiar:

Displacement cylinders are particularly popular on long-stroke hydraulics.  The first one I ever worked on was on a 3-stop hydraulic in-ground passenger elevator... and I grew to appreciate them once working on my first forklift, for reasons to follow-

On a displacement cylinder, the packing really just consists of a couple O-rings and spacers within the cap, and a wiper-type dust seal on the top.  The packing is all in the cap assembly, and there's a void between the upper wiper and the pressure packing... the void has a drain line that returns (gravity) to the reservoir.  

The advantage of a displacement cylinder, is partly the simplicity.  
  A displacement cylinder's bore does NOT need to be perfectly straight or smooth... there's no tight tolerance necessary for the end of the ram (usually referred to as the 'stop') because all it does, is stop the cylinder from spitting all the way out of the cylinder.   A slight bend in the rod imposes no significant issue to the unit's operation... and flex in the system doesn't seriously stress the displacement cylinder.

  There's no need for a 'vent' on a displacement cylinder- there's no 'piston', so you don't have an entrapped volume 'behind'.  The ram extends simply because the cylinder is filling up with fluid, and the only thing that will make space, is the ram being displaced out.  Furthermore, it will tend not 'suck in' dirt or crud from atop the packing, because there's never any negative pressure on the seal.  Whatever dirt DOES happen to make it past, will either be pushed out on the next cycle, or washed down the drain line into the reservoir, to be stopped by the filtering plan.

  A displacement cylinder is much less susceptible to rod corrosion, because when retracted, it is fully submerged in fluid...

And finally...  A Displacement Cylinder can USUALLY be re-sealed in-situ.  ON a forklift, here's how you do it:

Raise the mast up about a foot'n a half, put blocks under the carriage, so it can NOT fall.
Disengage the cylinder from the hoisting crosshead.  Usually, this is a bar with sprockets for a doubled-over chain, but this totally depends on the machine.  Usually, the rod has either a big castle nut, or a bolt-pin, or something that retains the crosshead cap on.

Once the crosshead is disengaged, chain it securely into the mast, so it cannot come down.

Lower the rod into the cylinder about halfway... scrub the rod with wire brush, emory cloth, etc so it's smooth and clean, wipe it down, and spray on a little oil (like engine fogging oil)

Lower the rod all the way down...

Remove the drain line, then disengage the packing assembly from the top of the cylinder, slip it up over the rod.  IF it doesn't wanna lift, fire up the engine, and cycle the valve to lift slightly.  Don't rev it up, if it blows the packing out, you'll get a 'drilling rig shower'.  a little bump of the valve will usually unseat the packing, and once free, it'll ooze some oil down the exterior, but the packing will slip off.  At that time, you can carry the packing into the shop to clean and rehab.  Easy-Peasy...  with a stepladder.  Mine took me about an hour and a half.


  SO... if you happen to find a diagram, but there's no seals shown, it's probably a displacement type.  If you carry the entire (cleaned and reassembled) packing, along with your cylinder's OD measurement to a hydraulics shop, they can order all the proper O-rings, and usually the modern materials are even better'n the old.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: Weldon
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 5:29pm
FM forklift in Bismarck doesn’t respond to inquiries on older machines. Very hard to get service information. We were completely willing to buy the parts from them and my brother even stopped in person and couldn’t get service help. Very disappointing. 😪


Posted By: Weldon
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 5:39pm
There is no return flow on this cylinder assembly, so the oil getting by the rings oozes out and onto the ground.

I appreciate what you’re describing of the simplicity having the return flow back to the low pressure side of the pump/ reservoir.

I was hoping that the catalog number and serial number of the mast assembly would be traceable to a kit by someone on the forum more famiywith older machines in a similar manner that I had expected to get service and purchase the seals from FM forklift.



Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 6:30pm
Really?  I got parts from them a few months ago!


Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 7:35pm
Weldon:  With respect to your seal issue I would recommend you go here: https://www.harloproducts.com/dealers" rel="nofollow - https://www.harloproducts.com/dealers .

Many of the Allis Forklifts were designed with Harlo forklifts.  

HTH's ~ Good Luck with the project!  ~ Orangeman


Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 10:02am
A rough guess, from the dimensions given, is that it is a displacement type cylinder, with no piston packing.

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Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel


Posted By: Weldon
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 11:35am
Maybe I can try FM Fargo location for parts support and get better response…. Different sales person might have a better responsiveness.


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2024 at 6:49pm
Herc-U-Lift in Long Lake MN was a AC fork truck dealer . Try them  , as it is a ram and not a cylinder and one way pressure up / gravity down should be simple unit 

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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2024 at 7:23pm
might try  http://www.liberatedmanuals.com" rel="nofollow - www.liberatedmanuals.com ... use 'search'' and maybe your model forklift will be there. LOTS of A-C stuff at that sight, though I tend to get 'lost' looking at 'stuff' there !

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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water



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