D21 what needs to be done to compete
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=202614
Printed Date: 17 Sep 2024 at 2:07am
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Topic: D21 what needs to be done to compete
Posted By: Brock58
Subject: D21 what needs to be done to compete
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2024 at 5:14pm
| I got a d21 as far as I know only the fuel pump has been turned all the way up. Im just trying to see what I can do to it to get more power out of it. It’s hard to compete with these guys who stick lots of money into their tractor but I’m wanting to get serious into pulling. |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2024 at 7:24pm
| First thing you need to determine is how tough your competition is. Are they an IH 1066 or 1466 running high 2nd in the 11,000 lb class?? or are they running high 3rd or 4th ?? Are we talking the County Fair once a year ??? or the State Fair ?? To make more HP you need a bigger injection pump and injectors. Then, at some point bigger injector lines too. Then, you'll need a bigger/better turbocharger. It all depends on if you want 300 HP or 500 HP or more. And then the clutch won't hold, so that needs to be upgraded. 10 grand could be spent pretty quickly. I can fix you up (this winter) but you've gotta know what you want. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 8:56am
|
The intakes on the head are tiny, IH are twice as big. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 11:04am
| He's been back on the website at least once and probably didn't like what he read. Too many non-pullers that want to become pullers to beat their neighbor at the county fair are clueless as to what it could take. Just "turning it up" doesn't work anymore most of the time. You have to KNOW what your competition is to determine how far you need to go. Back in the summers of 1980-81 I had a DM-4 pump that I had worked over and a set of complete .5mm injector assemblies that I "loaned" people for a county fair situation. |
Posted By: Brock58
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 12:05pm
| What would be a good injection pump and injectors to run? |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 1:56pm
Yep, I've seen this scenario countless times over the decades I've been involved with pulling. One very prominent case here locally; Eddie Horman (local farmer) Had brought a new 1466 just as they came out in the early 70s, That tractor never saw a day of field work in it's life. He was the top dog in the 9,000, 12,000 & 15,000 pound classes locally and got to also be know all over the NTPA circuit at the time. David Scott (of the Scott Paper family) was a Massey man and brought a brand new 1150, thinking It's got a V-8 so it must be better. Then spent who knows how much for add-on turbos and fuel system upgrades along with many different sets of new tires and never ever came close to beating Eddie Horman. After a few years David Scott was never again seen at a pull and the 1150 was relegated to log splitter duty. I saw this first hand when going by his place. Even with the unlimited Funds, It can still come down to the drivers experience and skill. The same goes for the many years I pulled a CA in the 2500 pound class in my area and dominated that class. I had used what I'd learned over many years of pulling with multi engine modifieds and It got to the point that no new people were getting into my class because they showed up with grandad's tractor right out of the barn and were lucky to get half the distances I could. and instead of learning and improving, they just gave up. Of the ones that stayed, they finally got rules passed to favor their tractors and I went to pulling Open classes.
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
DrAllis wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 4:52pm
| Injection pump and injectors must be matched to each other for how much fuel delivery the pump makes. What is your pulling competition?? How much HP do you want or think you need ?? I can tell you this:: any good IH1066 or 1466 or Deere 4440/4640 can make 300 HP without spending hardly any money. The IH's can make 240-250 HP without spending any money: just turn up the fuel screw. D-21 requires more $$$$ to be spent to get to those numbers and then there's the clutch and turbo.......... |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 7:44am
What are the rules??? Roosa Master puts out 400 cc of fuel max, Ambac from 8030 on up puts out 625cc, A pump puts out 900 cc , P pump, skys the limit. Fairvalley Performance has custom 5 hole injectors. My stock 8050 with stock Ambac with cut delivery valve and 3lm turbo easily put out over 300 HP, dyno did not go high enough. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 7:48am
| 3LM-466 turbo?? did you happen to have a boost gauge on it at the time ?? |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 8:09am
Yes and no, I did fail to mention I port matched the exhaust manifold, the holes are far smaller then the ports on the head. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 8:54am
| Waay back in time, I made 1 inch thick spacer blocks and grafted an IH DT400 series exhaust manifold onto a 426. The turbo used then was a TO-8 with a 2670 Case salvage yard injection pump that I worked over without spending any $$$$ on it. The whole combo worked quite well at the time for what I was pulling against. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 9:24am
|
I've built quite a few fuel systems for D21's that pull occasionally, at about 250-300hp. It is the most you can get while still retaining the factory fuel system. It does require going to a better turbo, I like the S200 for these. The big Roosa pumps are hard to find in good shape, I've had to quit working on them, due to parts nla. Also those require about 2500 in injector work to accommodate the big pump. The 300hp I refer to is using off the shelf parts, and pump modifications I do at time of rebuild. This is an off season deal though, I barely have time to post this this time of year lol! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |