PTO shaft dilemma
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20259
Printed Date: 09 Feb 2025 at 7:01pm
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Topic: PTO shaft dilemma
Posted By: MNLonnie
Subject: PTO shaft dilemma
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 6:08pm
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OK, here's the deal. I want to make a permanent mount for my PTO generator that I can bolt to the back of my WF. The problem is I don't want it hanging out the back 5 feet with a PTO shaft, I want it coupled right off the end of the PTO which means I need a sleeve to slide over both male ends on the shafts, similar to a lovejoy connector. I think the sleeve should be about 6 inches long? Where can I find a sleeve like that or should I make a different shaft that connects right from the PTO gear box to the generator or should forget the whole idea because it won't work? Give me your theories. ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Replies:
Posted By: wkpoor
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 6:46pm
| I would try to see if it can be belt drivin. Don't know about a pto pulley but my reason is so you won't have to run your tractor at 540. I even called a mfg once asking why they haven't thought to design pto generators to require half or third the input speed. It would really save on fuel and most applications have plenty of power maybe even at idle. A 50-75pto hp tractor can run really thrifty at say 1000rpm and still have good power for a gen. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 7:14pm
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Baum hydraulics www.baumhydraulics.com has that long splined sleeve. The compliication using it is that you need a rigid generator mount that will hold the shafts in line. If you were to use two short sleeves with a flexible coupling like a Lovejoy coupling. For a little longer assembly, but more tolerance of angular offset, take two splined female yokes with a standard u-joint cross assembly. Parts available from most every farm store as well as Baum in more than a dozen sizes of universal joints. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Alvin NE WI
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 7:18pm
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Lonnie. My thought would be that is a bad choice unless you have a perfect aliment. If you are off a whee bit it will take out bearings and vibrate at that close of a connection. Alvin NE WI |
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 8:23pm
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Alignment and vibration were my big concerns also which is why the lovejoy idea sounds good. The belt and pulley theory crossed my mind but I don't have that much extra horsepower (30 HP peak) so I'm not sure it could run it. I can get ends to fit the PTO gearbox and the generator so maybe I'll take the stock shaft off and make a custom shaft that way?? ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 8:56pm
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The U-joint will take away the requirement for exact alignment in all directions and pretty much set where the shaft axes have to intersect at the center of the cross. So you hang the generator by the shaft and raise the back end until they are nearly in line and then shim the shaft end until the slop in the spline is equal top and bottom, and hold it there. Fortunately you can marry any two U-joint yokes. The crosses used in AG stuff are symmetrical. Gerald J. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 12:59am
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Lonnie- I'll second Gerald's statements, and add one idea to the situation... On MerCruiser marine drives, there's a double-cardan joint inside the gimbal housing. If you know anyone who works on marine inboard-outboard drives, they probably have a few spare close-couple joint pieces laying in the junk box, and I believe a PTO yoke will match... if that's the case, your coupling problem is solved... just make a stout bracket that'll hold the generator in position without much deflection under transport or operation. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 10:55am
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The double-cardan is a good idea. I see in Baum's short form catalog they have them for 25 hp rated yokes in couple different lengths. Neapco 12-1410 is 2-3/8" center to center and Weasler 14S170-1 1-7/8" centeor to center. The Weasler is pricy though. The first one uses 1-1/16" cups and the second uses 1-1/8" cups. In 55 hp the Neapco is 7-1/4" center to center and part number 22-2205. But for that length you might as well just shorten the present shaft until the inner yokes butt rumps. That would be a lowest acquisition cost option if that PTO shaft hasn't other jobs. www.baumhydraulics.com Gerald J. |
Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 6:55pm
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OK, I can get 2 yokes and a joint in town for around $60, I'm going to try that and see what happens. Hopefully do it this weekend and I'll update when it's together, thanks for the input. ------------- Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 8:02pm
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or mount the generator 8 inches above the PTO and slide it forward so the sahfts are on top of each other. put a #50 sprocket on each and chain drive it. you can add washer spacers under the generator mount to move it up and down 1/4 inch for chain adjustments. Could also have generator sprocket a few teeth less than PTO so maybe you can run tractor at 1500 rpm to get decent generator speed. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 11:11am
Gosh Dave, you may be right but I was thinking the double cardan in the mercruisers were different size not the same as 540. Its been several months since I had mine apart for yearly maintenance. I can remember for sure that the shafts where fine splined but the joints size? I was going to recommend what steveill said, pretty smart for an Illinois boy;) but he beat me to it. The reason that PTO generators are run at full speed is because people are generally stupid. Most post 55' tractors have a tach with a position that states 540 pto rpm speed. The generator must be run at proper rpm to get the proper Hertz out(60hz) otherwise bad things happen, especially with electronics. Brush type motors dont really care but about anything in you house will. Does your generator have a tach on it Lonnie? I wouldn't think your WF does, if no to either how are you going to ensure proper speed. |
DaveKamp wrote:Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 12:22pm
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An old fashioned motor driven electric clock makes a fine generator tachometer. Just time the sweep second hand to do one revolution per minute. Otherwise there have been vibrating reed frequency meters that do that function often found in surplus. You do need to run standard tractor PTO speed if you want to use ALL the engine's power. Gerald J. |