one ninety XT dies
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20023
Printed Date: 11 Feb 2025 at 6:58am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: one ninety XT dies
Posted By: rayz379
Subject: one ninety XT dies
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 1:02am
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Folks I first want to say thank you for the site. I am doing my best to assist a friend with a issue he is having.
History first. It is a allis chalmers one ninety XT of unknown year to him or I. By comparison of on line pics it appears to be early to mid 70's. He purchased it recently and it has an issue. First off it runs fairly good while just simply driving (road gear) with exception of surging (like a tanker half full of liquid will feel) kind of........
Then when he hooked it to a 5' brush hog it will perform under load for no more then 30 minutes, begin to bog down, then if you decrease throttle it simply dies. Remove fuel supply to filter housing it has good flow, new fuel filter installed, but will not restart without assistance from either. It then spits, sputters, carries on for few seconds, straightens up and idles, has good throttle response, will drive around fine. BUT put brushhog back to work, 20-30 minutes same thing over and over. I can see fuel returning into tank through the return line at a very high rate at idle.
WHATS BEEN DONE........ fuel tank drained, cleaned (full of a lot of junk), sediment bowls, shut off valves all removed cleaned. New fuel filter (twice). New manuel primer installed (on filter housing).
We are at total loss except that I read a few discussions on a governer having issues. Does it sound like it could be this? How do we inspect for this problem? I am a auto mechanic but not dealt much with implament things.
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Replies:
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 6:36am
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yes, sounds like a classic case of injection pump return plugged up with broken flex ring particles. time for a pump overhaul. plan on around 400-600 depending where you go.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 6:50am
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Yes Ed i would agree with you, my 180 does it time to time so i clean out the return fitting with the ball in it and it good for a while, but plan on having it rebuilt over winter. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: rayz379
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 11:51pm
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Alright folks UPDATE:
Replaced the injection pump with a rebuilt pump from impl dealer. Same thing happens. Run it about 30 minutes, it begins to loose power, back throttle down and it dies. It ONLY does this under a load. You can drive it 20 miles if you want, but hook up brush hog, or small disc and it wont make it. Will NOT restart unless you hit it with either and when it does it coughs, spits sputters a few seconds and ready to go again.
Little more info: When it dies I can immediatly remove the supply line to the filter housing and fuel is coming out in nice stream so I know Im not loosing fuel to that point. HOWEVER when watching the return inside the tank, it is NOT steady, sort of spits, sputters and blowing through the line from the pump into the tank is very difficult. At some point their was a repair on thereturn line. At the engine block where the return line heads to the tank it has been spliced with aprox 24" of rubber hose. The hose is hard as a rock and I am concerned it may be restircted inside possibly not allowing fuel to return to the tank as needed.
I am going to replace (for now) the section of rubber hose and re reoute away from engine block. Will this hose, if collapsed or restricted inside, force the pump to overheat causing this issue???
Thank you so much in advance for any information....
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Posted By: Bob D. (La)
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 4:41am
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If there is restriction anywhere in the return line it will cause problems. Not sure if that is cause of your specific problem, but it needs to be corrected, so you are not wasting your time in doing it. ------------- When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 6:21am
| Remove one of the sediment bowls (do the RH one is easiest) and then remove the whole sediment bowl base from the bottom of the tank. Let a couple gallons of fuel run out of the tank to be sure of zero blockage and blow out all the collected debris in the sediment bowl inlet from the tank....it's blocked....works best if you have someone to help you while fuel is running down your arm. Also be sure the fuel tank fill cap VENT isn't plugged. |
Posted By: rayz379
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 11:27pm
Ok a few weeks back both sediment bowls were removed completly including the base. We drained the tank completly, added a home made extension to my shop vac, vaccumed the inside, power washed it out with high pressure washer, blew dry and left it open to completly air dry. I then added 3" extensions to both of the bowl housings so that when I threaded them back into the tank they would not draw any remaining trash we may have issed. So I have these little stand pipes about 2.5 to 3" protruding up into the tank. Sediment bowls are good and clean. This was all done chasing this dying issue. While I had the lines all open on the tank I used compressed air and blew good back to the primer so I knew the supply line was open and without restrictions. When it dies and I remove the supply line fuel runs free flowing to the primer. The primer is new, once again replaced chasing this issue. It has a brand new (from dealer) fuel cap, replaced chasing this issue. We even tried to run it with a homemade pantyhose fuel cap so that we were guarenteed to not be air locking, same results. I can blow back into the tank through the return line with my mouth, so if restricted it is minimal at best. The return fuel flow appears to react with RPM's watching it return into the tank, however I am unable to watch it while working the tractor due to being to much of a risk of being hurt.
The only improvement so far is that the "surging" issue is gone. I am beginning to wonder if it is a fuel issue at all??? Possible turbo, air inlet issue??? It has new air filter and I shop vac'd and blew air completly thru air inlet to turbo.
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DrAllis wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 3:25am
| I know you have a rebuilt injection pump but, anyway remove the returh fitting from the top cover and "gut" it....remove the glass ball and spring completely. You probably used your old return fitting and it's plugged with debris which came from the old inj pump governor ring. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 9:13am
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Like DR says. I have seen too many pumps get "rebuilt" by someone who doesn't know as much as they think they do! You can just replace the return fitting with an open hose barb if that is the style it has. Good luck. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: rayz379
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 1:50pm
| Ok the fitting is "gutted" gonna give it a work out monday. Ill keep you posted. |
Posted By: AndrewGubbels
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 5:53pm
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I have also had one plug the return line to the tank as well. Like said earlier after making sure that the glass ball was unplugged or a new one installed and it still does this or acts as if it is slowly dying off I would say take the fuel tank cap off and the return line off and blow back towards the tank through the return line. You should be able to hear when air shoots through into the tank. I hope this helps. Generally when I rebuild a pump I replace the glass ball fitting with a new. It is not going to hurt anything with the glass ball broken out but there is a recommended amount of back pressure with this fitting. Good luck! Sounds like you are on the right track! Andrew ------------- Andrew Gubbels Gubbels Restoration |
Posted By: amac
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2010 at 8:11pm
| I had the same frustrating problems with my 220. I even seized the pump because it wasn't getting enough fuel. I put a rebuilt pump on and that didn't completely solve problem. I cleaned the fuel tank out, new cap, and blew compressed air backward through the fuel lines. I also pulled the return line off and put a short hose on to observe the return fuel. It varied and was eratic. I got to the point that I didn't want to run the tractor for fear of seizing another pump. I finally decided to replace the fuel lines from the tank outlets to the filter. That fixed the problem and I could put the tractor under a load and it would stay with it. I decided that when I was blowing air back through the fuel lines I could here lots of air coming into the fuel tank. But that was with 150 psi of pressure and when the fuel ran from the tank to the filter it was by gravity feed only. I decided that there was enough sludge build up in the lines that the fuel wouldn't gravity feed fast enough to supply the pump and under a load would run out of power. Aiso when the tractor wasn't pulling it would only run about 2300-2350 rpm and after I replaced the lines I got another 100 rpm out of it. Don't know if this will help you but it fixed my problem. |