I am new to this Forum so hello to all . I have a hd16 dp dozer im a farmer ive owned the dozer for a long time  is there any one that has a hd 16 dp or similar ? Mine has the buda 844 engine having a few issues with it just thought more minds are better than one .

The buda 844 engine just came to a stop . I had not used dozer for a few years so started it up and it had a stuck plunger in pump so fixed that also flushed radiator and few other jobs fitted the tree pusher thought i was right to go . Backed through gateway and started to head of across paddock just basically a bit above idle all of sudden it started making a tappet noise looked at oil pressure still ok got of to listen to noise walked around the other side and the engine just seemed to lock up stop . I tried starter motor it would not turn . I was grumpy so i just left it until i finished my harvest  . So now im trying to figure out what it could be i guess the question is with the buda 844 do they have common faults that i should look for before jumping in and pulling apart 

thanks             

Thanks for the reply yes i will try with a little more information just thought it was the right way to start off 

chris

This almost sounds as if you have a defective oil pressure gauge and the engine was starved of oil. Does the engine have an adequate oil level/quantity in the oil pan? Was the oil level checked prior to starting the engine? 

With the engine being locked up, it was an oil pressure problem at one time would be my thought rational. If what I suspect it true, it will be a lot of money to get it running correctly again. Once and engine locks up it's usually something has come apart internally and those engines are getting tough to source parts for.

Thanks for reply yes had oil and was correct level , The oil pressure gauge seems to work starts at 0 moved up when engine started to around 40psi but yes could be faulty never thought of that one . I drained oil yesterday its black but still quite oily no water put a inspection camera up the sump plug near front of engine as you cant seem to get it in rear plug hole had a look. Bottom of sump is quite clean inside i can spot the first 4 conrods and mains with camera they look ok not overheated cannot see the last two . I took rocker covers off there is some condensation in the front cover valves and springs look ok . Got a pry bar in the timing mark spot and moved engine backwards then ford i was surprised as when this happened a few months ago the starter would not turn the engine . I have since removed the battery's from dozer hooked up jumpers to the starter and managed to get two full turns out of the engine it stops in three positions each rotation and had to click starter a few time to get past the tight spot remembering that starter was only on jumper leads probably not full power . So im a bit lost on what to do next dont want to start pulling apart if im wasting time for a engine that will be no good

thanks            

Need to ensure nothing has come apart internally is where I'm going but the "ticking" you mentioned is concern. If the engine is hitting a hard metallic "stop" as you rotate it by barring it has probably broken a connecting rod. I think I read you pulled rocker covers and if so are all engine valves closing as you rotate, or  bar the engine around? Some of this still needs checked I know. 

Last resort is pull the oil pan and get a look at the crankshaft, and connecting rods looking for abnormalities. 

No chunks in oil or pan when i looked with camera had a good view of the bottom of sump.When i pulled rocker covers and rotated two turns with starter motor valves seemed to all work springs and push rods seem ok. I have no batterys in dozer so i just jumped the starter straight from a little truck and starter might not have had the power to work properly i spun engine 2 revolutions   the starter would stop 3 times per revolution had two click it a few times to get it moving again like a tight spot or compression stroke. Yes im thinking of pulling of the belly plate then the sump its a big job for me and was trying to make sure im heading the right way if its spun a bearing i probable would give up on the job as it means engine out etc prob not worth the effort 

thanks         

Booster cables fall off in capacity under very high loading such as jumping an engine without batteries installed. I would get a couple of charged 12V batteries installed and ensure the starter is not the problem with engine rotation. This needs ensured before moving onto the reason she quit running. It's possible the fuel system is problematic and if the engine was starving out on fuel, this could be interpreted as a "knock", or "tick" as described as the engine began to misfire till the remaining fuel was expended. I've seen a lot of plungers stick in the transfer pumps and even though the fuel tank if full, the engine stalls from running out of fuel.

Let's get batteries installed and ensure the engine rotates before going much further. Borrowed batteries work well for a test rather than purchase for testing only. You're not going to hurt them.

Thanks i think your right i will put a couple battery's back in and see what happens. There is no oil in the engine as i drained it out but i guess a couple of turns with the starter should not hurt to much i will have the stop lever in stop position and see what happens 

good thought 

thanks  

You won't hurt it if just windmilling the engine for a few seconds. Those engines spin fast with the starter so don't go over about five to 10 seconds maximum if cranking over good. Unless you have disposed of the drained oil I wouldn't be afraid to dump it back into the engine for this test either.

How is the coolant level? We need to ensure there is no coolant leaking into the cylinders causing a hydralock condition also. Since you mentioned the valves all seemed to be actuating normally, I don't think this a problem but something to rule out.

Do you have capacity to video and upload to youtube? Would be easier if I could actually see what you are working with and on, but not a necessity.

The engine has coolant i left sump plug out to see if any coolant drips out the sump have not looked for a few days . I will get some battery's in it and see what happens if it turns ok for a few turns i will then put the oil back in and turn some more and see if i cant get the oil pressure up? It may not be today plenty to do on farm and weather very hot 

thanks   

Here is a pic of my dozer I put some batterys in today with mixed luck it turned over a bit then had to click on starter a few times to get it past tight spot it seems  then it would turn some more then same again at one stage it turned like normal but only one revolution its hard to hear any noises might have herd a clink sound thats it really im grumpy with it there is a bit of oil or fuel stain under exhaust manifold cylinder 5 and 6 i have not noticed that before had the batterys in and jumper leads as well so plenty of juce cables got hot im lost i guess if you were just to look today you would say flat batterys or bad starter but with what happened earlier the tappet sound and stalling theres somthing not right  i have a story to tell about today but not now i was so lucky 

thanks   

I smallerized the photo so I can see it complete without scrolling around:

This is a copy of your verbiage:

Hi Codger thanks  

By the sounds of your writing I cannot rule out the starter, or something in it's path. You could have a tooth or two knocked out of the flywheel ring gear or starter drive, the starter motor itself could be subject to needing repair etc. With the engine rolling over and not either locking up, or hitting a hard stop, I'm feeling the bottom end is probably fairly sound. 

I would remove the starter motor and have it a good look over along with any needed repairs. With a helper I would bar that engine around 360 degrees without the starter installed inspecting the ring gear as the engine is rotated. If tight spots are found in the rotation we need to drill down to their cause.

I wouldn't be all that concerned at this point of the leak you noticed. Probably a slightly leaking gasket that seals up when the engine warms. However with the engine cranking over, the injection pump is still pushing fuel into the engine through the injectors, (if working) and this fuel is not being burnt so it remains liquid. It will find the easiest place to leak.

At this writing I'm more concerned about getting the engine to roll around as should. Hopefully you have something rather simple as the root cause and it's not something catastrophic to the tractor. It's difficult to put a lot of $$$ into such an old machine but it if works it will still do a day's work just as good as a much newer one; albeit slower. 

I've seen such stupid crap put engines down over the years and I don't give up so easy. The dumbest one I seen was on a Ford pickup that the engine blew and locked up right after clutch replacement. Engine surely was locked up, but not because of the engine. Somebody didn't torque the flywheel retention fasteners and one backed out lodging between the flywheel ring gear, and the flywheel housing. Nothing wrong with the engine at all. 

Thanks for your reply's and the reseizing of  the picture hope you liked the dozer . I really cant see it the starter motor as was working fine and the noise in the engine just before it came to a halt im unsure . I did joined the forum for help more minds are better im a bit stubborn . I will take the advice and remove the starter and have a look as advised i would be so happy if this was the problem and would feel a little silly but i will give it a go i am still thinking spun rod bearing . I do appreciate the help and thank you both i will report back when i get the starter sorted 

cheers           

Hi Russell

Yes, I like the dozer and want to see you return it to service. I have an 11-B series and partial to the brand and engineering that built it. 

You described a "tapping" in the engine where a rod knocking is much louder. However, that being said, your interpretation may differ from mine. Usually a rod knocking is accompanied by a misfiring engine prior to letting go. If you have a spun rod bearing you quite possibly would have seen metallic "glitter" in the drain oil. Coolant in the oil will commonly cause a bearing to "turn" or shift in it's mounting. This is why I asked about coolant level. With carrying 40psi oil pressure at a low idle and possibly spinning a rod bearing, the engine would have had to have been tired, and/or very high hours yet the lubrication system was doing it's job.

I think it prudent to drop the belly pans and oil sump to get a look internally but attempting to rule out anything ancillary prior to doing that.  

Thanks  will investigate some more i hope its good news 

thanks  

Steve has mentioned the hydraulic pump drive could be suspect and this is very correct. The pump is driven at the front of the engine by the crankshaft and there is a coupling there that could be the problem. I would pull the grille and possibly pump from the front of the tractor to see if this is the problem. Remove the front grille and the pump is retained with bolts. I don't know if you can see the drive with the grille, or cover removed or not as it may be under the radiator blocked from easy view.

Here is a rough photo:

Thanks for reply wow you have me now i did not think of the drive in front of engine i maybe able to disconnect it and try again . I am more lost now going back to the start when all this happened the noise was like  a tappet noise quite fast then the engine growled or  grinded to a complete stop it happened just like that like you stall a car or truck trying to start of in top gear.  My first thought was a dropped vale or seat or stuck valve . But can get the engine to do two revolutions not all in one go it gets a tight spot and have to click starter two three time to get it past tight spot then it turns some more .So really cant be a valve or seat as it would come to a complete dead end . With batterys in and jump cable i got it to turn once like it should only one revolution . every one is right in there idea's im sure of that . So do you think the starter would make a ticking noise in the middle of the engine if faulty? And do you think the front pump or coupling would make a ticking noise in the engine ? I am not sure so as another thought a blown head gasket between cylinders? Or what i dread the most spun conrod bearing ? 

If its a spun conrod bearing has any one had a spun conrod bearing and been able to linish crank shaft in the engine good enough to get it going with out having to remove the engine and do a crank grind is this possible ? There is a guy here in au that wrecks these dozers he has another engine its a earlier buda 844 it only has the two valves per cylinder he says it would fit and it was running but he gives no warranty on the engine once your out the gate its yours and the price is 10000 dollars im not sure on that one as well so im a bit lost 

thanks            

This drive setup can do exactly what you describe. It's probably not seen grease in eons and first got tight, then very hot tightening more till it finally was tight enough to overcome the torque of the engine output since you were at low engine speed.

That hub probably bolts to the front crankshaft balancer or pulley. I'd get it loose and it should turn easily by hand. If it is not really loose or the universal joint is bad/tight, you have probably isolated the fault. Regardless, get oil back in the engine with this drive disconnected and see if the engine starts and runs. With the hydraulic drive disconnected you will still be able to move the tractor as only the blade and ripper functions are affected by that pump. Since both are elevated, you can then move the tractor to a better place to work on it. All is assuming this pump, or drive is the problem.

You keep supplying the symptoms and I think we'll keep supplying possible repair options.

Once again thanks for your replies I will investigate some more like You mentioned with all the machinery that you have used its only happened once a spun conrod thats encouraging ill check the front drive and still have the suspect starter motor to check i have replaced the starter many years ago its not a fun job have to remove the oil filters and mount to the block and some of the heat exchanger to get it out its more than half days work just to remove from memory . As for the drive on hydraulic pump i will have to drop the blade take the bottom half of grill of i recon thats how you will get to it so maybe a few days until i get this all done 

thanks        

I should probably back track a bit on the starter. I would get that front coupling disconnected, get oil back into the engine and see if it will readily crank right up. Most of my limited AC experience is with newer tractors than yours where the hydraulic pumps are engine flywheel driven and not crankshaft driven at the front. I had completely sidelined that important piece in the equation. 

With that hydraulic drive disconnected and if the engine still won't start, the next thing to do is "bar" the engine over. If the engine rotates through 360* but the starter still won't spin it, then something in the starting system is amiss.

Let's get that hydraulic pump separated from the engine before going much further would be my suggestion.

I will look into it might take a few days will let you know the outcome 

thanks

Well a few days gone buy i had a couple free hours so i looked at dozer again . I decided to drop belly plate to get a look at the front drive shaft  blade is chained up to close to front grille . Belly plate was full of dirt etc very heavy once off i discovered at the back of sump there was a big round plate that could be removed .I had a quick look at front drive shaft the joints seem to be ok just visual cant really see how i am going to get to it without removing the grill . So i could not help myself i removed the round plate on sump which leads to the oil pickup screen i could not get my inspection camera in this spot at the start its kind of  enclosed compartment in bottom of sump . removed the mesh from oil pickup there is quite a few metal pieces on the mesh flakes and there soft can bend with fingers hmm thats as far as i got i am hoping now i can get camera up there and look at the bottom of engine .

cheers        

Had a quick look up the sump with inspection camera its hard to get a real good look but it seems that all the connecting rods have not been hot or discoloured but as said its pretty hard to get a good look . I drained the oil from filters unfortunately some water came out of the bottoms of them but oil is just black no silver . I will remove the filters when i get a chance and have a better look . The front drive shaft i grabbed with my had has i tinny bit of movement back and ford the uni near the front has quite a bit of movement in it pretty much bugged im still trying to work out the best way to get the shaft out .

cheers       

Water in the oil filter housing is usually not a good sign but for now let's say it's just condensate. It is still cause for concern however.

For the testing phase we are in, the pump driveshaft does not need removed; only taken loose from the crankshaft and the shaft moved out of the way so it doesn't catch or hang up on something while/if the engine spins. We are simply eliminating that variable from the equation.

Why was the dozer blade chained up in the first place? If you have a blown hose or something like that and the tractor was ran in that condition without hydraulic oil in the reservoir, the hydraulic pump very well could be no longer serviceable meaning locked up, or presenting the tightness experienced. 

First thing i did was chain the blade up when engine seized as over time it drops down slowly and i thought if i keep it up would have a chance of towing dozer out of the paddock blade and rippers were working normal 

cheers 

That is great news and clears one hurdle I was having.

If you get that driveshaft loose at the crankshaft the hydraulic pump should turn quite easily by hand without much effort. You cannot spin it fast enough by hand to make any pressure so it should rotate easily without any tight spots really.

Just to let you know ive been a bit busy on farm and have not got back to dozer but will in the future i do appreciate the help from people just work comes first . You mentioned you had a 11b do you have any pictures ?

cheers   

No worries Russell, I work with farmers near every day of the week and understand fully. Kinda in the blood I know well.

Yes, I have an 11B with a 1975 build. This tractor is a bit special to me personally as I actually drove it from the Allis-Chalmers finished tractor staging area to the loading area when it was brand new. Which of the two I drove that day to be shipped to the selling dealership, I don't know. There were two 11B tractors going/shipping that day to El Paso, IL and this is one of those two. Whether it was the first, or second tractor shipped that day, I don't know. However a local contractor purchased the machine and ran it several years to trading it in on a Caterpillar product. A now good friend of mine purchased it in 1997 with then brand new tracks. I came along in 2020 delivering a new farm tractor to him and conversation lead to this tractor. Investigation proved it one of the two I drove that day in March 1976.

Here's a couple photos:

Pretty good ole girl and I'm really happy with her.

Thanks for the pictures i like your dozer and what a story to go with it. You were very lucky to come across it again .  I purchased my dozer at a clearing sale it came with the angle  blade but its original bull blade was sitting next to it and i did not buy it unfortunately i know the guy that did buy the bull blade and have asked him over the years if he would sell it but he will not its just siting there he does not have a dozer to put it on . Your pictures are inspiring me to get mine going again if possible .

cheers

Hi Russell; Thank you for the compliments. I had many friends, and parents of friends working at the AC plant where these tractors were built so the progression was almost a natural for me. Being young at the time I really didn't get to operate much machinery but that particular day I was in the right place at the right time so to speak. Knowing many of those working, some of the rules were "skirted" to get a job done. That is what happened here when two trucks showed up late in the day to load and I jumped into the fray to save time.

Here is another photo of the tractor without the risers on the front as it was built which were added by the prior owner. They are actually from a much older HD-11 series tractor:

Its been a few weeks had a little time today and pulled the drive shaft of front of the engine. Hydraulic pump turns over buy hand drive shaft had a pretty bad universal joint notchy its not easy that to get shaft out not looking ford to putting back in . So i tried to turn engine over again with stop pulled out a few times it turned quite well then back to clicking starter to get it past tight spot i recon i heard the noise while turning over the tappet sounding noise it sounds like its coming from lower block up the front only a slow noise once every turn or so of the engine. Im convinced its a bearing or  some thing inside the engine . If the engine has spun a bearing is it possible to linish a crank shaft while still in the block? has any one done this before ? I am thinking that to pull engine out and rebuild is probably not worth the effort or money pretty sad really 

cheers             

Hi Russell; It is becoming to sound as if a rod bearing has spun so the belly pan and engine oil pan need to come off for further evaluation. Once access is gained you can pull rod caps and/or sometimes just tap with a small hammer the crankshaft end of the rod and see if there is any movement to know.

As far as doing anything with the crankshaft still in the block; not really any longer. Years ago there were little machines built to do this work but not so much any longer. It sounds like the tractor may be done for if the engine is down. It is not hard to weld up a crankshaft journal and have it ground to proper dimension, or ground undersize if not too bad. Sometimes just a polishing of the journal will do the job but not usually if a rod is knocking from spinning a bearing.

Regardless, going from your input it sounds as if the engine needs to come out to go much further. I don't know about parts availability on your tractor as never worked on one, (engine) but here they are difficult. A Cummins repower is probably best, but that is difficult in it's own right to make work.

If me, I'd pull the belly and oil pans and taking a small hammer knock on the lower ends of the rods from side to side, and up and down to ascertain if there is any movement. Any movement detected between the rod and crankshaft journal and the rod cap would be removed, and a section of "plastigage" inserted, rod cap reinstalled and torqued, then the rod cap removed again to measure the "plastigage" for width. The width of this will show you the bearing clearance according to the included chart furnished. If the clearance is within specifications, a strip of fine grit sandpaper roll, (emery cloth) works well for removing any bearing debris and lightly polishing the crankshaft journal. If bearing clearance is excessive, the engine needs to come out I'm afraid for further repair. 

Lookee here Russell:

https://www.agkits.com/Allis-Chalmers-844-Diesel-Connecting-Rod-Bearings-CB1632P.aspx" rel="nofollow - https://www.agkits.com/Allis-Chalmers-844-Diesel-Connecting-Rod-Bearings-CB1632P.aspx

Yes, don't know the particulars of his engine but much of that can be sorted. I've modified main and rod bearings over the years to fit if they are the same dimensions internal, and external, so I don't rule anything out.

Had on old Hercules we line bored and poured babbit fillers into, line bored that, and then installed bearings from a Cummins engine. Time, money, and an aggressive attitude can work in one's favor at times to save things. I thought the guy was nuts till I seen the mahogany Chris Craft boat this was from. I was then quite proud to be a part of the project. 

IIRC if the one here has the original engine it ought to be one of the late series

Thanks again 

hd16dp -6087

16-05206

these are the numbers ive been told that the buda engine has the American made crankshaft wich are quite sort after as they fit to latter models with the Japanese cranks wich are prone to breaking . 

Ok my question is has any one had a spun conrod bearing and been able to just polish up the crank a bit and fit new bearings ? I guess the chances are slim i talked to a engine rebuilder and he has seen engines that are locked solid and crank is still ok luck of the draw i guess .  

cheers

"later ones would probably be ok but i would not turn up a 16000 or 21000 as they have smaller crank journals.  much harder to find bearings for these 3 vavle head engines than the later 16000H- 25000 etc."

Looks like i have to remove sump and have a look unfortunately if the crank needs grinding i think i will call it quits of to the scrap yard . I have a 260 scraper with a 892 detroit fitted to it not much use to the dozer very sad to let dozer go .

cheers  

Thanks makes sense hope its not to bad inside the crank shaft would it be nice if i could remove the bearing clean up the crank replace  bearings  some how i dont think so 

cheers

Remember that until you take the sump off and look you don't know that it is the crank area at fault

It appears the std. size rod bearing set in this link are correct for that engine if original to the tractor:

https://www.agkits.com/Allis-Chalmers-844-Diesel-Connecting-Rod-Bearings-CB1632P.aspx" rel="nofollow - https://www.agkits.com/Allis-Chalmers-844-Diesel-Connecting-Rod-Bearings-CB1632P.aspx

The engine number and the tractor number fit in the search criteria, but without seeing anything it is stated on visual findings only. Until measurements are known, nothing really to be done.

Stephens equipment has some partial items to help build a set, but nothing complete as per their website. I have a couple of other contacts that deal in NOS and good salvage but pricing is reflective of availability.

You are all right dont give up yet i will take the sump off and have a look its very dry here at the moment i will wait until we get some rain as its so dusty and dozer in the paddock 

cheers 

Swear, I must be getting old.... 

Well had some rain dust settled decided it was time to pull the sump of the engine . Once of all looked pretty good no discoloured caps no metal showing up so i decided to grab hold of rod ends and could move just a little side to side all felt good but no movement in number three so im thinking this is the problem it got dark so left it at that will have a go at pulling rod cap off today and see the result .

cheers   

Have apart bearing spun on top of other have photos just not sure on the best way to post on here 

cheers

a bit different one on top off other

next journal as good as gold 

bearings  

cheers  

Another way to check this is to take a long tapered punch, hold the punch in your hand and swing against an anvil striking the hammered surface, to the anvil.  remember this sound.  Ping!  now strike against each individual bearing cap(if there's room!)  the bad one(s) will make a Pock sound, instead of the ping sound...

Ok Russell; The engine may need to be removed for repairs. However to ensure the crankshaft will require regrinding it needs measured up before going much further. I would take an inch wide and 18' length piece of emery cloth strip and after rotating the crankpin, (journal) to the bottom of it's stroke and pushing the rod away for clearance, polish that journal with the abrasive pulling the emery cloth fully around the journal each way using your hands. Usually the soft babbit, antimony, and copper based materials will easily remove with the cloth. You will than need to clean that journal using a clean, lint free cloth. Using an outside micrometer measure the journal top and bottom, and side to side at perpendicular axis to one another. This will tell you if the journal is out of round. Any more than about a .001" - .0015 out of round and the engine probably won't hold a bearing very long. If the journal is out of round, you can wager the rod is also and probably worse. These most times can be repaired also, but it requires cutting the cap and resizing the rod journal end to correct dimensions. 

If it were me, I'd clean that journal up best possible with engine in the tractor, get a good measurement and ascertain this part before going further. If proven satisfactory for both dimension, and out of round, then rotate the crankshaft 90 degrees, and pull the rod and piston down with a wire around it's base, install the rod cap, and measure the interior at 90 degree spacing basically the same as you did the crankshaft journal. If anything is found out of tolerance, the engine will need further repair.

Given the scuffing I see on the other bearing shell you posted, the engine could use a "freshening" which is easy in the grand scheme of things. Citing the engine still has standard sized journals is in your favor for economical repairs, (relatively speaking). 

I'm interested in what you find out with the measurements. Keep the sump mounted back up onto the engine to preclude any rusting from the humidity in the air too along with catching airborne dirt.   

Thanks for the reply Do you have a suggestion for the grade of emery paper to use i have plenty here but its pretty course i think its about 120 grit . I will have a look at my micrometres i have here im not sure i have one the right size you would kind of think with the bearing halves stuck together that the conrod would have to be out of round but like you said start with the crank. Do  you know  or would some one else know if its a big job to get engine out of the dozer ? can you remove engine with out removing radiator 

cheers    

Hi Russell;

I typically use 320 Emery cloth when polishing journals. Also use a light machine oil and polish just till a clean surface. I expect you will need another connecting rod but am always conservative on the internet with suggestions as to not paint "doom and gloom" which is so prevalent. I think if the crank journal is found to be good, you can pull cylinder head #1, install a bolt and clipped washer into the block deck to ensure the liner doesn't push out of the block while you push the piston and rod out from the bottom to renew the connecting rod. Hopefully the prognosis is good once the crankshaft is measured up. Many times a rod can be resized, but many times not.

I wouldn't attempt to pull the engine with the hard nose and radiator in place myself as it needs to move forward to clear encumbrances to remove. Usually best to lift a little and pull more from the front than straight up. A wheel loader, or crawler loader is a good tool to use for the lifting as everything is heavy. Hopefully you can do an inframe rebuild and all be good. Regardless it will be much easier to work with if the blade and push beams are removed.    

Thanks again i will have to get some 320 grit emery this is a different question if the crank is ok would it be possible to pull the piston downwards enough to get conrod off ? Im not sure if gudgeons pins are press in or just slide in just a thought . I guess the crank journal is the first thing and go from there. Looking at the exhaust manifold bolts they are going to be a big problem nuts are rusted pretty badly i guess i could just cut them  of and try remove studs latter.  Did ails ever make a tool to hand wind the motor over i have been baring through the timing mark plate its ever so slow any way first job crank shaft go from there thank you for your help 

cheers        

Hi Russell;

Don't know if I've ever seen an engine where you could remove the wrist pin from the piston with the crank still in place. I really cannot say for certain but probably not. Many times those pins will push free with a little force after the circlips are removed from their ends. Sometimes a little more force than fingers is needed and I've used a large "C" clamp and spacer a lot of times but usually a hydraulic shop press is the tool to use.

I would get those exhaust studs and/or nuts soaking in 50/50 ATF Acetone mix a couple of times per day. Then a torch to warm the fasteners red, allow to cool, then red again and after a cooling period attempt to gingerly break them free. It would be helpful if a helper were to warm the area around the fastener just before you apply torque to the frozen fastener to expand the direct area. The penetrant works, but takes a while when things are really bad.

 

Had a couple hours spare yesterday started to emery crank shaft i spent probably a hour or so but did not make a lot of progress still plenty of white metal on the crank shaft is this normal? using 320 grit paper wondering if i am doing somthing wrong or its just one of those jobs that will take lots of time 

cheers

You could start with 240grit but it will scratch deep if aggressive. That bearing has been very hot to be adhered so tightly. Not what I consider abnormal as the appearance from your other bearing shells reveals oil starvation. 

I will do a bit more and see how i go with the 320 probably just one of those jobs that take time 

I have not had the chance to get back to the crank i have a lot of cleaning up to do there hope i get the metal of and its ok underneath

cheers

I talked to him at the ANZAC service today and mentioned your Japanese crank.  His comment was that there were 16000 series and 17000 series engines we got here.

Seems the 17000 ones came via a particular importer.  He described them as "looking like a 16000 but weren't quite" and that he had never followed up in detail.

FWIW

  After I got into inspection and later became the Customer Product Auditor I had the opportunity to have a conversation with one of the metallurgist concerning the quality of the 6 counter weight crankshafts. He told me that crankshaft had elevated levels of impurities and poor grain structure. 

 Long story short it wasn’t all that great and nowhere near the quality of the U S made 12 counter crankshafts. 

Locally constructed comopnents meant lower import duty.  Example was that the Bucyrus equipnent for IH was done by Armstrong Holland under license.

I have not been on here for awhile busy on farm 

Thats some interesting reading on the crank shafts 

I still have not had the time to do any more on my crank shaft 

work in progress

cheers 

I have nearly caught up with sowing etc on farm . I had another go at the crank shaft cleaning up the journal with emery but unfortunately its not possible .

I talked to a guy who has another engine for sale he says that there is no point trying to machine up my crank shaft its a waist of time because its a jap crankshaft and mentioned that is probably cracked and this caused the problem . Has any one had much experience with these types of crank shafts 

cheers   

 

  

Thanks for reply 

The guy says that the crank shafts are problems Japanese ones and he would never put one back in a engine .

In saying that he has a second hand engine for sale but its quite a lot of money plus he would want my old engine as well 

cheers  

He is probably correct in the crankshafts were a problem. It reads as if the gent with the donor engine is a reseller, or dealer of used engines to want your old "core" engine in return with a purchase. If me, I would have that engine out and partially disassembled in the lower end to ascertain what is actually needing rework. We know we have a rod journal, or crank pin that is down in dimension so either a regrind, or weld up and regrind to proper sizes is in order. We also know a connecting rod is hammered from a spun rod bearing. With the crankshaft, and main bearing shells, along with thrust washers removed from the cylinder block, a competent machine shop can measure things up without further disassembly. Once measured up, a plan of action can be comprised. 

I don't know the parts availability in OZ, but if here in the USA, I'd be installing a Cummins NTC myself and adapting the hydraulics to work with the new engine. Of course I would research parts for the original first as that is the easiest repair if parts are available. 

Lot of work any way you go and everything is heavy.

The cummings might be a thought i will have a look and see what a engine would set me back . The engine that i have been offered is quite expensive complete engine plus radiator 

cheers  

FYI - re-powering an Allis 21c.  They were using a John Deere engine.  Looks like it never got finished

https://www.vannattabros.com/dozer17.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.vannattabros.com/dozer17.html

Might be easier with a Cummins - IIRC the FD 30's are a re-engined HD21C and some of them had Cummins fitted.

Later - as the mental rust flakes seep up -

Minn Par used to have a parts book up for that version but looks like that is gone.  Maybe one of the other places that deal in parts?

IIRC those were last used by Allis in HD15's and not HD 16's?

https://contractormag.co.nz/classic-machines/allis-chalmers-hd16/" rel="nofollow - https://contractormag.co.nz/classic-machines/allis-chalmers-hd16/

If they didn't have torque converters and power shifts 6/71's might be in a similar position as the Van Natta conversion attempt

The 16 dp has a converter 

i did not think of the wet fly wheel and also the twin pickups in engine  sump

a conversion would be difficult

will have to dosome more thinking 

cheers