Power beyond
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=199315
Printed Date: 11 Nov 2024 at 11:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Power beyond
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Subject: Power beyond
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 7:50pm
| How do you put a power beyond on a 7030? |
Replies:
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 8:32am
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What are you trying to 'run' ? ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 9:26am
| A small hydraulic pump on an Ace sprayer. The tractor has two remote valves but they have to be used to raise the left and right booms on the sprayer. A third remote would work but that would end up being a lot of work and expense. A power beyond would be much simpler. I know the PFC system needs to be done a little differently than a closed center system. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 9:31am
I’d look into a multiplier for the boom raising function and run the motor off the other. |
MrSnerdly wrote:Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 9:32am
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not very hard to slap in another valve to the stack and add a lever and cable ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: I M Fedup
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 9:54am
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Certainly just opinion here, but I would lean toward an electric diverter valve plumbed in the lines plugged into one of the remotes. To me, that seems the easiest way out for something you don't need to be a permanent part of the tractor. Adding a third remote is an option yes, but unless you think you might use that for other operations as well it would be overkill. Plus you open up another can of worms by disturbing a valve stack that probably has been untouched for years. You would need a lever and cable, longer draw bolts, all sorts of new O rings, and possibly have fun sealing it all back up.
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 11:08am
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This is not a PFC with a sensor line as in use today. You have a stand by pressure of about 500 PSI that operates the compensator to vary the squash plate. There are flow controls on each spool. On the 8000 series there is a modification to allow the use of the remotes w/o dropping the flow to the motor. Don't think the 7000 has that ability. Maybe others have found a way?. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: dp7000
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 3:09pm
| Could you just change pump to a pto driven pump? Could be cheaper option. |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 3:40pm
| I hate PTO driven pumps. No way in hell would I go back to a PTO pump. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2024 at 5:15pm
| Just trying to think outside the box here. I don't think you need a "Power Beyond valve". I think you need a Load sense/closed center valve that stands alone. Tap or tee into the output of the main piston pump for your oil flow at the pump. Tap or tee into your load sense line for signal to the pump at the pump. Return oil should go into the surge chamber line (another tap/tee) but could probably go into the lower sight glass or the plate above the drawbar. Your new valve would need a flow control for speed. I envision the area behind the lower battery tray being used. I think an electric add-on with left/right switch for booms is the best idea. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 7:54am
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I have an electric valve, i guess you call it a power beyond, on my planter to contro; the markers with a switch in the cab. switch one way and the left marker works, switch the other way, right marker works and raise the planter with the other valve. You could hook the boom to the power beyond, and use the other valve to the pump. I would NOT run the pump thru the power beyond valve. ------------- CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070 |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 7:58am
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The switch is a 3 position switch, center position off, left on, center off, and right on ------------- CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 8:11am
| Attach the switch to the remote lever so you could flip left/right with your thumb or finger while operating the lever. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 9:30am
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I don't mean to get to techy or simplistic here, but a definition can be helpful. Power beyond in hydraulic terms means an outlet for pressure to operate hydraulic functions under full flow and pressure to another valve system. Example is on a tractor with out any remotes or loader the pump pressure goes to the lift system on the 3 point hitch. IF remotes are added the pump flow goes to the valve - thru the valve and then out to the 3 point hitch via a 'power beyond' fitting or sleeve. If a loader is added with a joysitck the flow goes to the loader - out through a power beyond - and to the tractor remotes - out thru the power beyond to the lift. Most valves with a power beyond have a 3d line to sump that takes the flow from the cylinders return oil on the non pressure side as the ram moves from pressure on the other side of the ram. Auxiliary valves have an inlet and outlet standard. IF the oulet is used as a point to provide pressure with out a power beyond sleeve it will pressurize the oring seals on the spools and will soon fail them. There could also be a restriction of flow causing overheating. This is on an open center system. On a closed center valve the power beyond is blocked as one can Tee into the pressure line anywhere for more valves. The pressure flow compensated valves that are added into the PFC units must have a 'sensing' line with a one way check tee to 'stroke the pump'. This is a special valve. A "splitter" valve is one that plugs tow lines into an existing outlet and yields 4 outlets that are switched from a flip switch. There are also double splitters that yield 6 potential pressure outlets ( can operate 3 double acting cylinders) instead of 2 or the 1 without anything. Sorry for the long post but it is cold here in Tn and we found a warm spot - it looks like I am busy at work :-) ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 9:42am
| Exactly tbran. Valve stack receives oil from pump, Thru Port or 'Power Beyond allows that oil to also supply Other valve stacks or functions. Did that with loader controls on my 180. Line to Hydraulics had a Union aside the battery box, two elbows, first one To the Loader Control then return line from there to second El replacing the Union. |
Posted By: Leon B MO
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 9:44am
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I have a Fasse switch on our 8050 for the 3rd set of remotes. works great on our Kinze planters but as said above need to flip switch from one to another. Which for me is only when going to or from transport. Question I have is if he wants to raise or lower booms while the pump is running, will the boom remote starve or slow down the pump remote, dropping water pressure or not raising the boom without shutting off pump remote? This would be the same with a Fasse valve or adding an additional remote to the stack. Our Hardi sprayer (pto pump) has solenoids at the back of the sprayer and a handle with 4 buttons that bolts to the hyd lever in tractor. Can raise and lower and fold each boom independently with one set of remotes. But again, that may take pressure away from pump if you want to ajust booms on the go. Good luck. Leon B MO ------------- Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself". |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 10:17am
Can you post pictures on this forum? Sometimes it is hard to understand without a picture or diagram.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 10:37am
| The electric valve has two hoses on it. Just plug into a remote valve like a regular hydraulic cylinder would. Flip the switch left or right and operate the remote valve lever up or down. |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 12:03pm
| I like the Fasse valve Idea, use that to control the L-R booms, the other outlet to run the pump. cost effective, easy to install... may be a learning curve to run the switch and lever |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 1:23pm
Do you have the remote in neutral when not using it? Would you move the lever to raise or lower and then operate the electric solenoid?
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 1:33pm
| HOLD is HOLD. Flip the switch to LEFT or RIGHT.....move your remote lever to RAISE or LOWER and back to HOLD when height is achieved. |
Posted By: Leon B MO
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 7:04pm
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Here is my Fasse valve on an 8050. In the pic I have 2 sets of hoses hooked up, don't need the third for our grain cart. But a must for the planter. The chain goes up to the cab to help support the weight of valve and hoses. The wires go from valve to switch in cab. The switch is a 3 pole, off in the middle, hot left (b for black wire at solenoid) or right (w for white wire at solenoid). That just helps me figure out what I'm doing when hooking up different pieces of equipment. The Fasse valve has eccentric hyd inlets to fit your tractor remote. They sell for about $500. I'm not sure if this is the same as the electric valve Dr Allis is talking about. You never said if you will need to raise or lower your booms while the pump is being used. I'm still wondering if you will be able to use the pump and boom remote at the same time. If I use both remotes on the 8050 they each slow down. Again, good luck Leon B MO    ------------- Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself". |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2024 at 7:30pm
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That makes sense to me. I know you aren't supposed to tie the lever back on a PFC system. Not the most convenient thing in the world but it would work. I suppose when you do it a few times it would become automatic. This is one instance where I see an old closed center system has an advantage.
I would be using it as the pump is running. My ground is fairly rough and it seems in certain areas you are adjusting boom height many times. No more flow than the booms take, I doubt it would bother much. I currently am running a 4240 JD on the sprayer and the pressure drops very slightly for less than a half second and returns to normal. Of course, that is the old fashioned closed center system but I think the PFC system would not be affected a great deal more.
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