plow question
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19839
Printed Date: 08 Feb 2025 at 5:48pm
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Topic: plow question
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Subject: plow question
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2010 at 11:01pm
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I finally got around to having a new turnbuckle made for my 2-14 plow. I'm pretty sure it's a model 52. I'm pulling it with the CA. Traction booster system works like it's supposed to. When I set it all up the first time taking in account no furrows yet, I had it setting on the floor in the shop level. First pass the rh bottom cut in some, the left hardly went in. I turned the beaming screw in most of the way and the rh bottom cut in pretty well but the left did little more than scratch the surface. I shortened the turnbuckle I had repaired for the RH lift link all the way and that seemed to help quite a bit. It makes me wonder if maybe the turn buckle is still too long? What are the 2 set screws on the tongue for? I see I can angle the plow to the left or right with them. Moving the right wheel in or out changes the width of cut right? What about centering the plow on the cross bar that the lift links attach to? I took it all apart to free up all the adjustments. With just the tongue, lift links, and cross bar hanging on the tractor, the tongue is centered on the bar and the lift links are straight up and down. I then centered the rest of the plow on the cross bar as best I could. If the turnbuckle is still too long, once I have a furrow to drive in, I will need to shorten it a little more yet won't I?
Anybody have a manual for a 52 plow that they would be willing to sell? ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Replies:
Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 5:21am
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I have the same problem with the one I changed from pin hitch to snap coupler. I going to change the anchor on the turnbuckle. Move the rear anchor to the rear so I can tilt to front down. ------------- "Burgie" |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:48am
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Brian, it sounds to me that you need new plow shares. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 10:33am
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First I must ask, because I have seen problems with it before. Do you have a pin hitch on the tractor or a snap coupler? If you have a snap coupler, was it originally equipped so(what year?). If it was originally a pin hitch and converted, was the lift arms cut off the correct amount? A you sure the plow is/was all original? You can convert them, but the need not only a new drawbar loop but the lift links are completely different, just not the top of the link. Last. You should level as you said in a shop with the rear *and front(if its a wide front end* tires up on 6-8" blocks. But your first pass you will have to crank the adjusting screw pointing the bottoms down all the way(count turns so you can easily reset it back to the previous level for the next and all subsequent passes) Also do you have your rolling coulters set right? about 1/2" outside of the frog? Is your land slide/shoe in good condition, This gave me grief for a while, quite similar problems to what your experiencing. Last of all, I don't know about where you are at, but here in indiana, its to damn dry to plow, If so it will be difficult to get it to go in. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:06pm
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The ground is moist here. No shortage of rain the last couple years. I have the coulters set like you describe. The landside looks good to me, but I can't say for sure I know what I'm looking at. I'm wondering if Dennis is right. I have to turn the beaming screw in most of the way to get much depth. When I had it set to where it would go in the ground and brought it back in the shop, when I set it down, it sets on the RH bottom's tip. The LH is almost 2 inches off the floor. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 4:10pm
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If it is the points that are worn out, is it possible to build them up by welding? The points on this plow have part of the landside on them. There's no listing for my plow in Agco's parts books. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Larry Miller
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2010 at 7:09pm
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May not be your problem but I found when using over size tires, it raises the tractor enough to lose your depth adjustment. I had to cut the rod down about 2 inches shorter to catch up. ------------- I used to be young and stupid, now I am not young anymore. |
Posted By: John In.
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 1:07am
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did you try and lengthen the L.H. lift link. The beaming screw gives you the depth that you plow, the lift links level the plow out. You might need to lengthen the L. H. lift link to get the L.H. plow to dig in. The 2 set screws on the tongue are used to center the tongue between the beaming plates ,but you can also use them to change the width of cut( for a minor change that is) John
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 6:37am
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If I shorten the RH link all the way and turn the beaming screw all the way in the LH bottom does dig in, but the bottom of the furrow is not even close to being somewhat level. It's at least 30 degrees off.
The plow as far as I know is a snap coupler originally. The tractor is a 51 but has snap coupler and it has 11.2-24 tires. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:38am
| Brian - The lift links need to be approx 3" different in length. ie, the RH link is the shorter one. On mine the RH one is 10". Once you have your wheel spacing set, you can then proceed to adjust the tongue. With the 2 setscrews on the tongue, you adjust them to get the front bottom to take a full width cut and allow the plow to run straight behind the tractor. This is a very sensitive adjustment. I would not adjust more than 1/2 turn at a time. Depending on ground conditions you may need to run the coulters wide enough to get a nice clean furrow wall. As for the shares, you can get new points welded on. - AL |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 1:01pm
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Getting new points welded on, I know where I can go to get the welding done well, but is this a really sensitive job? Will he really need to know how to contour them? I don't think I know enough about a plow point to direct him. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 1:15pm
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I have always had trouble getting the ac plows right. Wish someone would make a video on how to set one up correctly from the begining.
One thing that i always wondered. If the crank adjusts the depth, how does that work
with the depth gauge wheel?
I heard that the tongue is supposed to be between the beaminfg plates...but what is the correct placement of the beaming plates?
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Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 3:01pm
| Tom - The 2 screws between the beaming plates give you the same adjustment effect as moving the hitch on a pull type plow. It allows the plow to cut the correct width while it aligns the plow to the drawbar hitch point. The beam screws are aligning the plow to the snap coupler hitch point. On a 2-14 plow, the plow pull center is approx 17.5" from the furrow edge. If the inside edge of your furrow wheel is 25", you need to adjust the beamscrews to make the plow pull straight. You may need to move the tongue with the screws over 3-4"(to the left). This will allow the plow to run straight. As for welding plow points, you need to find someone who has done it before and knows what there doing. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 3:49pm
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Al, clear as mud...
Setscrews on the tongue???? If are talking about the setscews I am thinking about, Then the very next sentence: >>>"This is a very sensitive adjustment. I would not adjust more than 1/2 turn at a time." Sounds like we are now talking about the beaming crank, yes? As I Dont see how turning setscrew on the crossbar a half a turn does anything...You loosen them to adjust the spacing of the bottoms relative to each other, tighten them when done. If you are talking about the beaming crank, not sure how turning that crank adjusts What is the "furrow wheel"?? Are we talking about the depth gauge wheel? Still unclear how the beaming crank and depth gauge wheel work together >>>"You may need to move the tongue with the screws over 3-4"(to the left)." You said setscrews on the tongue earlier, but I think you meant crossbar. So do you mean crossbar here, or the true tongue that hooks to the tractor??? |
Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 4:21pm
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Went out and measured a plow on a D15. The RH lift link is 14 1/2" bolt to bolt. The LH lift link is 11 1/2" bolt to bolt. I think that might cure my problem. Thanks guys. ------------- "Burgie" |
Posted By: John In.
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 4:39pm
| Left beaming plate should be 11 in. from left lift clevis, there should be 5 in. between left beaming plate and inner side of frame member for 14 in. plows. This is only a starting point. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no gauge wheel on a 52 plow defth is controlled by beaming screw. The 52 is the same as a 53 just one less bottom. HTH John |
Posted By: Jeff(WC)(MI)
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 6:24pm
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I had a 53 plow and different problems, but you may find some helpful info in this thread where i was asking questions, it's 2 or 3 pages long
http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16874 - http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16874
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 6:49pm
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I was talking to my ex father-in-law today and it may be the points are worn out. The front point doesn't dip down much at all. The last time I plowed with it I remember "finding" a couple rocks that were big enough to yank the front wheel out of the furrow and firmly plant the steering wheel nut into my chest. That was ideal ground to scour a plow as it was really sandy. He tells me that I may be fighting something bent since it sits on the RH bottom and the left one is a couple inches off the floor. He also says the old rule of thumb is with the point on the floor, the back of the landside should be 3/4 to 1 inch off the floor.
Jeff, how did your plowing turn out? I did remember the shortening the right side lift link to get the left side into the ground more from your thread. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 7:04pm
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The 52 has no wheels and depth is just with the beaming screw. John, are those measurements from the manual for a 52, or just experience? How about tread width? In the "Plowing For Profit" video I have they are using a WD and a "round beam" plow. For 14" bottoms they say tread width center to center 56". ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 7:57pm
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Brian, do you have a manual? If you need one I can copy mine and email it to you. ------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 9:50pm
| Brian - Sorry for the confusion Tom. The setscrews I am referring are the ones on either side of the plowhitch(tongue) in the bottom of the 2 plates that hold the beaming crank(depth adjustment). It allows the plow to cut the correct width while it aligns the plow to the drawbar hitch point. Remember the plow has a point from which it wants to pull from (approx 17.5" from the furrow wall on a 2-14)and the tractor pulls the plow from a point determined by the wheel thread. The Furrow wheel is the RH wheel that runs in the furrow. The reason for only moving the setscrews only 1/2 turn at a time is that moves the tongue eye about an inch at a time. Normally you need to move the tongue to the left so the plow will run straight. The screws in the crossbar are factory set and only moved if you go to 16" bottoms. Hope this helps. - AL |
Posted By: Jeff(WC)(MI)
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:15pm
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Brian-
I ended up getting to the point where it plowed pretty good. But nothing to write home about. the front bottom was not digging as much as the back, and the front bottom was not cutting all the way as far right as it should have, therefore between the two issues it would not turn as much dirt with the first bottom as the third...making my plowed ground higher on the left and sloping down to the right...and as i kept going around it left waves acrossed the field....it came down to on mine needing to adjust drawbar set screws, but one was welded on my plow, and then i drove the tractor acrossed the mackinac bridge, and then sold it to buy a oliver super 77 and 3-14, 4240 plow and just helped plow 30 acres with it yesterday, have no regrets.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2010 at 10:51pm
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I have always heard Oliver made some of the best plows in existance. Seems like it was Dean Byerly that told me that when he worked for Brubaker's in Prairie City from time to time they would put Oliver's Raydex bottoms on A-C plows when nothing else would work. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 5:38am
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thanks Al,
that clears it up some!
"Remember the plow has a point from which it wants to pull from (approx 17.5" from the furrow wall on a 2-14)and the tractor pulls the plow from a point determined by the wheel thread."
If I am visualizing this correctly (no small feat) Im thinking you need to have these points aligned the as best you can..Boy an illustration would help.
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Posted By: Jeff(WC)(MI)
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 7:17am
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Tom-
check out the third page of the thread i posted a link to...ALinIL put up a good picture for hitch points
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 10:05am
Good schematic Al...
 So that final adjustment of Beam screws or plow hitch to line with CL is minor adjustment to the 24.5??
Also, on the below pic, which blue line is the HP? (see where connects to tractor)
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Jeff(WC)(MI) wrote:Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 10:57am
For a long time they were. Good plow and used the least power/fuel compared to other bottoms. That is until the kerverland bottoms came out, they blow every thing else out of the water? Furrow? Brian, the snap coupler did not come out on the CA until January of 54 so if yours was a 51 it was converted. I do not know the measurements or the exact method (I think the used the bottom hole of the pin hitch pin holes) but they were shortened compared to the pin hitch lift arms and cause problems with some implements, and would with the plow. |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 11:30am
| Sorry for the confusion I may have caused. Big thing to remember is that a plow has its hitch or pull point and the tractor has its pull point. The tractors pull point is determined by wheel thread. I have a WD45 and a no 52, 2-14 plow. I run the wheels out one notch(hole). I have adjusted the screws in the tongue so the plow runs straight and the front bottom takes about 15". The little extra width on the front bottom helps fill and make both furrows level. Sometime when I plow I'll try to get some pictures. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 12:09pm
Wish it was that simple for me. I have hooked up a plow, it sits on the concrete pad nice and straight in line with the tractor. The tip of the left share edge is 15" or so from the inner edge of the right tractor wheel (just like your illustration). Had the left side wheel of the tractor up on a block to mimick the furrow depth, winged the plow level.. and the we proceed to pull all cockeyed...bah! You need to be a rocket scientist It seems to me...
So what blue line is the hitch point?
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Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 1:10pm
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Tom - It's not rocket science. Remember the sitting on the concrete is NOT the same as pulling the plow in the ground. The leveling is a good start. Once you get the plow in the ground and go about 50 ft, stop, get off and see what you got. Make adjustments and go again, stop, get off and again observ. Did it improve or is it worse. If worse, you know you adjusted the wrong way. After about 3-4 trys you will see progress.
Also I assume the plow is scoured. - AL
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 1:23pm
Knowing WHAT adjustment to make is the tricky part...If your read Butch's post on the other thread its enought to make your head spin!
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 1:41pm
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Hey Al,
Reading and re-reading...
The "Hitch point" that is the imaginery pull point of where the plow tongue should centered, right?
If thats the case, and the plow tongue is centered on that point, why do we need to adjust the tongue any further with those setscrews? Isnt that the "magic point" of pull?
I would think once you have the tongue centered on that point, you need to then adjust the furrow wheel left sidewall to be 14"-16" away from the left side of the front moldboard landside. (figure "S" in your drawing)
I guess whats throwing me off is the need of additional adjustments to make it "pull straight" OOPS I see the issue HP can only be determined once you have your tire set...
So lets get this step by step...
First thing. lets assume WD45 and 2x14 bottom plow.
1. We have to get the tread set. Is there a math formula?
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 2:25pm
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You need the pulling point at the center of drag of the plow. Once the plow bottms are set that doesn't change much until you change the style of the shares. It will be right of the center of the line from the right hand end of the front bottom to the left face of the rear bottom. The center of that line is the center of the cut but since the plow is turnung dirt to the right, the plow wants to kick to the left. The landsides take some of that side thrust and moving the pull point to the right of center takes the rest. As for wheel spacing, ideally with perfect dirt, you want the center of plow drag to be in line with the center of the tractor. But since the wheel in the furrow has bare fresh dirt and wrapping up the sides of the tire it grabs better than the wheel out on the surface which slips in the grass, cornstalks, bean straw or whatever is on the surface. I don't think its terribly important to have the plow load centered on the tractor because the wheels don't have the same traction. I is convenient then you don't have to steer so hard to keep in a straight line. A wide front is handy with the right front wheel bearing against the left side of the furrow. It would be handier for a narrow front to have the load centered to match the center of the pull which depends on the land conditions. When you set the plow on the concrete you need to pull it back from the tractor to take up the slop in the hitch. If the hitch is worn or missing pieces the plow will cock and not plow straight. Gerald J. |
Posted By: nella(Pa)
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 2:43pm
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What will make a plow run to one side is a bent frog or a twisted beam that the frog is mounted on. To check to see if the plow is bent from hitting rocks, you can see it by eyeballing it or measure from the tip of the share to the beam of the bottom in front of the one you are checking. They usually bend to the left and sometimes the frog will bend down and make that bottom suck more than the rest of the bottoms. To straighten a twist, chain the plow to a tree while it is mounted on the tractor, hook a chain on the plow share tip of the bent bottom and bend it back with another tractor to the correct measurement. I did this to my 4 bottom JD rollover a number of times, used my D17 and had to jerk it pretty hard. It was a lot cheaper than buying a new post for the plow! Always put the best plow share on the rear bottom of the plow. On a level surface put a 10" block under the left rear tractor tire and adjust the three adjustment (center crank on plow and the two lifting links) points so the plow sets level on the floor and adjust the right rear tractor wheel so the plow will cut the appropriate number of inches(14", 16"). You are ready to plow, if the plow don't plow the proper depth adjust the crank adjustment on the plow, shorten it to make it go deeper or lengthen it for more shallow. This should solve your problem.
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 2:49pm
In other words: HP = .75(S)+(n-1)(.5*S)
Well,
Plow hitch location = plow drag center per Al's formula
Plow hitch connected to tractor center
Ergo, plow drag center is now in line with center of tractor.
Now all we have to do is make sure the furrow wheel is not too far away or to close to the right share. ("S" on Al's sheet) Once this is done, we shoulf be plowing straight, but we will need to adjust winging and depth...
Am I getting this right?
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Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 3:54pm
| Tom - In the diagram the "S" refers to the width of a share. S equals 14 in the case of a 14" plow. If you had a single 14" share, you would NOT pull it from the point. The share would twist to the right. By pulling from a point approximate 3.5" to the right of the point the share will pull straight and won't twist. Again this hitch point(pull point) will vary some with different manf of plow share and bottom. Obviously the hitch point will move further to the left with each additional bottom. Usually the wheel tread can not adjusted narrow enough the allow a small tractor CL(centerline) to align with the hitchpoint of a 2-14 plow. Again it ain't rocket science. Just think about a guy with a 1-16 plow and he pulls it behind a IH H. He needs to adjust the plow so it will pull straight and take a full cut. It can be done. The wheel tread is what you set it. Most manf will give you a wheel tread that is as close as possible to the hitch point. When I had a 4-14 behind a 45 I believe the wheel tread was about 74". |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 4:18pm
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So if I'm understanding this correctly, the center of pull to make the plow go straight is not necessarily half way between the bottoms. If the bottoms were side by side, it would be, but because they are one behind and off to the side that changes things. So would the center of draft actually be closer to the RH bottom then? It has to take into account for some leverage because the LH is staggered to the left and rear of the RH right? ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 5:12pm
?????? Not sure where I said that. I thought I said:
"In other words: HP = .75(S)+(n-1)(.5*S)
Plow hitch location = plow drag center per Al's formula
Plow hitch connected to tractor center (via snap coupler)
Ergo, plow drag center is now in line with center of tractor" Per the furrow wheel I said:
"Now all we have to do is make sure the furrow wheel is not too far away or to close to the right share. ("S" on Al's sheet)"
I screwed up on that. Corrected: The furrow wheel left edge should meet the outside(right) edge of right plow share with 0 to 1" gap between. (The 15" you mentioned)
So to repeat the written steps what you are saying on your schematic:
1. Calculate the pulling point distance using .75(S)+(n-1)(.5*S). Set plow tongue to that distance as measured from center of plow tongue to the outside(right) edge of right plow share
2. Hitch tractor to plow
3. Adjust furrow wheel (right) so that distance between left sidewall of furrow tire to
the outside(right) edge of right plow share is between 0-1"
Correct?
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Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 5:41pm
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My little B seems to dive into about any ground but I never can get a very clean furrow. I always figured it was just old and tired. It is sort of relaxing to use it on plow days and avoid all the hassle of setting up a bigger plow. I have the bug to try a pull type plow behind the WC tho and get as frustrated as everyone else. I think I would have to take the B on the trailer just in case. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 5:42pm
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Ok Tom I think we are getting closer. In the above(1) the .75(S)+(n-1)(.5*S) is the point at which the plow pulls from. This is usually the point where the tongue attaches to the plow. With the 2 adjusting screws in the bottom of the plates that hold the beam crank, you need to adjust so that you pull the plow straight. Usually you will need to adjust the tongue to the left til the plow runs straight and the landslide is rubbing the furrow wall. Tongue too far to the left and the RH plow will not cut wide enough and the landslide will not rub on the furrow wall. Remember all adjustments are done with a scoured plow. Also remember the furrow you drive in also has effect on your settings.
Maybe I'm too critical. I have plowed for 50+ years with pull type and mounted plows. Also have plowed in competition.
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 5:52pm
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Al,
No criticism taken! Just trying to get to where we are both speaking the same language!
When it comes to something like this which is much easier to understand in person, it can be hard to comprehend, at least for me it is. Thats becasue I am a "picture learner" and when it comes to understanding the written learning as opposed to the visual , I can get hung up on words and get easily get my plows "off center" so to speak!
This hangup on words drives me nuts in the AC manuals. They call something "x" in one paragraph, then its called "Y" somewhere else. I remember reading a paragraph naming a part and referring to the drawing that names the parts. The part name described in the paragraph is worded differently than the part name on the drawing which makes me wonder if I am looking at the right part...Confusion!!
Thanks for the schematic and helping me understand!
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Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:08pm
| Tom - Glad I was able to help. You are correct about trying to explain something in writtten as opposed to oral. One thing you will notice when you get a plow dialed-in is that it pulls much easier. Maybe someday I should do a AC mtd plow article. Only thing is, its ancient tech. No one really cares about plowing the correct way. On most plow days the guys just rut through the field. 2 weeks ago, I went to a plow day. The ground was HARD. I had to adjust plow to the conditions, but after 2 adjustments, the plow performed great. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:28pm
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Al, I think you have done one nice job of telling the guys just how the math is on a plow pull type or mounted. I can't type that well or fast so I just stayed out of this one.
Dad was the guy who made me setup a plow his way as a kid and I guess some of it musted of stayed in the old head somehow. lol ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:33pm
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Having plows behind one another instead of side by side (which wouldn't plow because there wouldn't be a furrow for the left bottom to turn into) doesn't affect the pulling center much. You want to pull from the right of center because the plow bottom, no matter where or how many pushes to the left because its moving dirt to the right. The rear bottom has more leverage at the hitch than the front bottom though because its on a longer lever arm behind the hitch. Centering the pull behind the tractor is a waste of effort because the two wheels don't have equal traction. The wheel in the furrow gets better traction than the wheel running on corn stover, or grass, bean stubble, or hay and the difference depends a lot on the depth of the material and the moisture in the material and the ground. Sometimes one runs duals only on the on land wheel or runs more weights on the left side to try to equalize the tractive force so the tractor runs closer to straight if the plow pull is centered. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Jeff(WC)(MI)
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:41pm
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AL....i know what you mean about rutting through the fields on plow days, we have a large plow day that my friend hosts, 3-400 tractors plowing, he ends up with a mess! but we all have fun. But some of us "try" to do it right. I helped plow a whole field with my dad and a friend just trying to get a 53 plow on my wd45 to plow "right"...it did ok but i wanted to do a good job. I am unfortunately only 28 and didn;t grow up with this stuff, so i have to study extra hard to learn what some people know as old news. But i appreciate all the details people like you put out there and i am sure others do as well. I read everything and tuck it all away for the next time i drop my wheel in a furrow. that super77 and 4240, 3-14 plow i just bought does a beautiful job, but the furrow is not quite as clean as i would like, so i am going to try and figure that out with the back coulter. keep up the good knowledge, we are listening! |
Posted By: Jeff(WC)(MI)
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 6:54pm
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Al-
just for fun, i plugged my info into your equation. now i bought my tractor and plow together, which i havn;t done before with the others so i always had to start from scratch, well this time the previous owner, who bought it brand new in 1956 and just turned 96, told me what to do. But heres what i found....from inside to inside of my back tires is 53 inches, exactly what it should be per the oliver plow manual for 3-14's. so i plugged in the 3-14's into your formula and came up with a HP of 24.5, from inside right tire...which is two inches shy of exact center between the rear tires, and therefore would put it exactly where the previous owner told me to put it..one set of holes to the right on the swinging drawbar....so my plow was already setup and i kinda worked backwards since my plow pulls straight and works good, but i guess thats kinda like math class, "work backwards to prove your work"
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 10:02pm
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I got to looking at it tonight and when I have the plow setting level on the floor, the entire bottom and landside all set level on the floor. Shouldn't there be sort of a "ramp" on the nose? This would explain why I have to turn the beaming screw so far to get it to dig in wouldn't it? I took the plow and tractor over to a blacksmith shop that has several older guys who are A-C fans that hang out. I'll know more tomorrow. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 1:04am
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Thats in the fine adjustment area, and depends on the shape of the nose of the plow share. A deep suck share would stick out and down at the front to pull the plow into the ground with the bottom of the landside level. The landside probably should be about level. In a three point geometry to get the plow to go in I'd shorten the top link to tilt the plow forward and lengthen the left lift link to get the rear bottom back level with the front bottom. My plow would set on the noses of the plow shares that are turned down. Long about 1950, my dad built a garden tractor to plow, pulling a 1 horse plow. It didn't want to dig in. He took the plow to an old time blacksmith who heated the tip of the plow share and turned it down a bit, probably a quarter or half inch, and it plowed for another 50 years doing about a quarter acre garden once a year. Your blacksmith may want to do that for your plow shares if they aren't too badly worn. Gerald J. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 1:52am
Sounds correct your saying unequal traction would skew how it pulls, but I think centering it is a good startin gpoint. Make adjustments from there to account for what your saying.
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Posted By: pumpkin man
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 10:20am
| you is said you had the left wheel on ablock then leveled the plow are you getting your righs & lefts mixed up rember the left side is the land wheel the right side is furrow wheel put block under the right wheel then make your ajustments |
Posted By: John In.
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 12:26pm
Left wheel is on the land, right wheel in the furrow, now tractor leans to the right which means plow will lean right. to make plow level you would lengthen left lift link and shorten right lift link.. John
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Posted By: John In.
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 12:40pm
| Here's something we didn't think of. The first run through the field there is no furrow, this is where the plow runs level. Now with plow level on concrete then you go to field you would have to turn beaming screw to get defth then turn both lift links the same amount to level out plow in the ground. Am I right? John |
Posted By: John In.
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 1:12pm
I got this from my manual.. and yes for 2-14 and 3-12 and 3-14 is 56'' tread width.
I guessed that the right wheel was adjusted all the way in and then adjusted left wheel to get the 56'' width. John
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Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 1:29pm
| I only adjust my beaming screw for the first pass, put it full down, count how many revolutions from "level" so on the next pass I put it back to level all from the seat. |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 3:23pm
| John - In manual, wheel tread means just that, not offset tread. The placement of the LH wheel has nothing to do with setting the thread for plowing. You could have the LH wheel set at 6FT and it wouldn't matter. As for the 56" tread that probably was chosen because of some adjustment limitation of the wheels and different tire sizes. |
Posted By: John In.
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 4:52pm
So as long as the right wheel tread sets in the furrow and the first plow turns the soil over into it you have that wheel where it belongs or is that where the width of cut adjustment comes in? John
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Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2010 at 5:34pm
| John - The width of the cut is normally determined by plow size. ie; a 14" bottom is 14". If you choose to cut 12" or 16", that's up to you. The furrow wall is the reference point for measuring the 1st bottom. Normally the furrow wheel rubs the furrow wall and that give a uniform reference point. If you happen to be to a plow day and see a large 6-8 bottom plow, you may see the tractor run on land. The plow and the tractor are adjusted to perform that way. The same plow hitchpoint still applies. A 8-16 plow will probably have about a 100-120" wheel base so it can run on land. |