DISAPPOINTING 7020 POWER
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=197689
Printed Date: 24 Sep 2024 at 11:23pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: DISAPPOINTING 7020 POWER
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Subject: DISAPPOINTING 7020 POWER
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 11:50am
We picked up a 7020 about 10 years ago. we have always thought it was a bit under powered. it seemed to smoke(black) too much like it was over fueled. 2 years ago we replaced the injection pump, this helped some. only smokes when when it is worked hard now. it still seems underpowered. we cannot pull out on level ground in high 4 on the low side of the floor button. it will do it with nothing behind but it lugs. in the lower field gears it seems ok but we really had no frame of reference to compare it too. last year we bought 2 7000 red belly tractors. both of these will pull hills better in higher gears than the 7020 could dream of. the tractor doesn't seem like the engine is worn. it starts fairly easily in warm weather and not too bad in cold if plugged in. does anyone have any thoughts on why it would be weak?
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Replies:
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 12:38pm
Have you checked the turbo to make sure it is not carboned up?
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 1:07pm
I've been in there a couple times over the years and haven't ever found anything. Maybe putting a boost gauge on wouldn't hurt though
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 2:05pm
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Sorry to hear about your frustration. Probably already checked it? But, try checking it's air intake pipe from Donaldson plastic bowl to filters, for a SERIOUS BIRD'S nest.
7020 is not an 7000, and visa versa. 7020's transmission/rear end is like all other 7010-7080. 7000's transmission is like 200.
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Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 3:46pm
Install a boost gauge and report back what it’s doing under load.
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ryan
1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 3:47pm
Any time there is a low power problem with a turbocharged diesel, the first thing to do is put a pressure gauge in the intake manifold to measure the boost. My bet is a plug has fallen out of the intake somewhere, and it's not able to build much if any boost. It makes them very smoky and lazy. Could have a blown intake gasket as well. See what boost is, if it doesn't make at least 10-15, under load, road gear on the brakes, it's got an issue.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 3:58pm
Yes we have been through the air plumbing a time or two. i understand there are differences and you cant compair directly, but the 7020 seems week for a 120 drawbar hp.
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 4:16pm
Also if it has Bosch or American Bosch injectors, make sure they are installed correctly, return line on the side goes toward valve cover.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2023 at 4:37pm
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A 7020 was 123 PTO HP, not drawbar HP. Injection pump timing works best at 16 degrees BTDC. There were some early 7020's that were timed at 20 degrees BTDC and the owners manual said that too. INCORRECT. Max turbo boost is 24 psi as per A-C specs. A dynomometer is the sure way of knowing what the engine is or is not doing.
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Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2023 at 6:27am
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Throw it and your 7000 on a dyno and see what they are making. They are 102 and 89 drawbar respectively. 123 and 106 PTO. AaronSEIA
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Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2023 at 7:37am
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Our 7060 had a power loss this summer. We put a boost pressure guage in it, and it wouldn't make 10 PSI. We could feel a little looseness in the turbo turbine, so we replaced that. That didn't help. Then we finally pulled the exhaust and air intake off the turbo, plugged both inlet and outlet of the turbo, and put some compressed air to the intake manifold, (very conservatively) and found that there was a leak in the intake manifold gasket. New intake gasket, and we got our power back. Darrel
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Posted By: Trinity45
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2023 at 9:32am
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We had a 7020 back in the late 80's and not sure how you are using yours but ours seems to have all the power we needed, we pulled a burch 20 ft disk no problem all day long.
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Posted By: SilverShoes
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2023 at 12:33pm
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My 7020 doesn’t have the power my 7010 does but the pump and injectors on the 7010 were rebuilt and turned up 10%
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 8:00am
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I have always heard it takes a healthy 301 to keep a 7020 in line, I have no experince with them; but as it is alot heavier to begin with than the One Hundred series makes sense;;
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Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 8:26am
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They definitely need more rpm to get them moving, especially the power shift models.
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Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 10:08am
This is my opinion only but that 123 P.T.O. hp setting was asking an awful lot of the 301! Consider that is basically the same as a 1066 which has 113 more cubic inches. The 414 is just loafing at factory setting.
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 10:10am
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Yup Mike kinda nailed it there, just my opinion
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 11:06am
The 7020 used a little different turbo than the rest of the 301's, and it seems to me it was a looser exhaust housing making them a little lazy at lower rpms. This doesn't sound like the op's problem though, he has a definite issue that is not just one of these tractor's quirks.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 3:29pm
We sold a bunch of 7020's back in the day. The bad was if they were 'turned up' the engine life due to electrolysis was pretty common. The ones that we we saw that had a lot of hours on the engines were dynoing at less than 130 HP. We always instructed the operators to keep the engine rev'ed to above 1800 rpm to get the boost up . We didn't sell the PD as it took a lot of power to move a 12,000+ # tractor to speed. Start off in 2nd gear and power shift up. IF starting a heavy load in high range use the clutch to go 1st to 2nd due a pretty harsh shift. We have also found a lot of To4b80 turbo's changed to ones that had the .69 A/R turbo. 7020's had a .58 A/R for more boost as did some combines that were intercooled. When we ran with 1066/86 and 120Hp Deere's that were not fueld up - a rariety- we could pull the same disc at 1/3 less fuel. On light draft loads going to high range and using 1st or 2nd gear was even more efficient. Low HP is due to what has been discussed here - Timing- boost- and engine component health. It was a small cubic inch engine on a heavy frame with not much low end torque - but a HP is a HP at the rpm range it was design to make power at.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Posted By: Leon B MO
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 5:16pm
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I have a pd 7020 with 54xx hours, head rebuilt 2 years ago. It's main job is pumping water if the river is up when the crops are in the field. In 2019, it ran for 3 days non stop. Brushhogging in the spring with a 2615 Woods until the 8050 is done planting and chopping stalks in the fall with a 20" chopper. I've had it for 8 years. I agree the 301 has it's hands full for a tractor that was sold as 123 hp. I use it to do the jobs that the 190's and 200's just can't do. But I don't expect it to do the same job as the 8050's as fast. I do wish it had the power shift but it doesn't. I also have an 8070 pd that is sluggish starting out. When I want to pull out on the highway, the throttle is at 2000 rpm on both the 7020 or 8070, it's not like I'm slipping a dry clutch. Once the tractor catches its breath, I shift the pd cluth and go. They both do fine at rpm's over 2000 so I keep the rpm's up even if it means picking a lower gear. Hope you find the issue with your 7020. Don't give up on it. Leon B MO
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Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
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Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2023 at 9:43pm
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Are you using a premium grade #2 diesel in it or truck stop fuel? There's a difference.
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Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2023 at 8:48am
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Thanks for all the replies. I plan on testing the boost this week. I will look at the timing too. I don't remember where I set it when I replaced the pump but I generally got my specs from bill at Sandy Lake before he retired. the pump came from Wimers.
as for the fuel grade I really cant answer that, my FIL does all that purchasing. all our tractors are running the same fuel. the 7020 is not a power shift it is a 16sp pd
I may be off on the rated HP numbers but my point is that at this point our "120hp class" tractor will not do the same job as our "100hp class" tractor will. I'm really just trying to figure out if this is just the way it is or if there is an issue with the tractor. I don't personally run this one too often, but in my experience "road gear" on this 7020 is useless. I find it hard to believe that 1800-2000rpm to pull out in the low side of high gear with nothing behind you is what the factory intended. But maybe, I am wrong.
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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