Grain Loss in Harvesting
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Topic: Grain Loss in Harvesting
Posted By: Jack(Ky)
Subject: Grain Loss in Harvesting
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 10:12pm
| A week or two ago there was a thread on here about crop loss behind the combine. I had to make a quick trip to east central Illinois over the weekend and I couldn't believe how many green fields I seen as I was traveling. Their were fields that I would have been ashamed for anyone to see they had so much corn in them. I am not talking about a sprout here and there either. I saw some fields that looked like they had been sown with corn. Am I missing something or what. I am pretty certain it was corn and not sudan grass or something. Maybe it is just people that like deere so much they want everything green.LOL JP |
Replies:
Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 11:15pm
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Jack I also see a lot of corn sprouting in the harvested fields.I guess they cant get it all.In the process some is going to fall on the ground.If there was a cost effective way to get 100 percent I am sure someone would have come up with it already
------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 5:52am
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The old E would leave very little in the field. I fired it up and did the last couple of acres of beans as my injection pump went bad on the L2. The L2 is new to me and real nice to operate but my old E is within my comfort range. It's such a nice little bean combine. A little slow in today's yields. Especially after running the L but it was so easy to adjust and get every little bean in the bin except of course the little extra shelling loss at the head vs the 315 on the L. Dad used to run 300 acres with an E and it would do a good job wether it was beans or corn or oats. We always fixed the machine ourselves except once he had a guy come out as Dad didn't own a torch. You know how many bearings I helped remove with a hammer and good chisel over the years! Not so much on the combine but that blasted Gehl 1500 baler was a bearing eater. I bet Dad could count on one hand how many bearings he put in the E but the Gehl baler would take a handful every year. Well, I guess I rambled enough. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Jack(Ky)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 6:12am
| I know you are gonna have some loss. What I am talking about is fields that are thick with corn. They must have been seeing how fast the combine would run and the corn was just going out the back and this was in the heart of the Il. grain country.JP |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 7:00am
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You loose corn from stalks falling over, winds make that happen more. But certain varieties (often Pioneer) called race horse varieties cannibalize the stalk to finish filling the kernels and that makes them fall down sooner. Drying the corn in the field and so hoping it stands longer leads to more fallen down stalks. The dryer the ears the easier the heads knock off a few seeds. The loss probably isn't nearly as bad as it looks, remember it took only about a third of a bushel to plant the field originally but if there were 30,000 plants originally loosing only 3 kernels per ear amounts to a bushel and its easy to knock three ears off the butt end of an ear in the corn head. The biggest problem in beans is that with most varieties and years, there are pods laying on the ground but still attached to the stems and you just can't pick those up without splitting them and spilling two or three seed per plant. I've seen bean fields sprout from early harvest several times thicker than originally planted. And drying beans in the field (hardly ever dried in a dryer) can get the pods to splitting open from the heat of the sun and those beans hop right out of the pod when the combine gets close. The only good solution would be to follow with a big vacuum with a screen to separate seed from dirt and pebbles. At $2 a bushel it won't happen, at $12, its probably on somebody's drawing board. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 7:34am
| I live in centrl IL and it has been that way for years. Just relax the first freeze wil make the landscape look normal. |
Posted By: John (C-IL)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 7:53am
| Jack, it's more circumstances than anything. First of all, the corn was dry at harvest which results in more losses, not much you can do about that. Second, those losses are always there but because of the weather those kernals germinated this year. And finally, an acceptable harvest loss is around 3 bushels per acre. That's about 240,000 kernals per acre or about 6 per square foot. If you walked out in the field and took a count you would find most of those losses in the neighborhood of being acceptable. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 8:26am
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I will have to bring my camera with me to town next time I go and take a picture of a field that I know was harvested by a new John Deere. I would guess the kernels per square foot to be 30-40 without any exaggeration(20 bu/acre x $5.30=$106/acre left behind). And this guy farms a couple thousand acres. The ground is lighter than most around here so it usually is planted first and harvested first. I know it was probably dryer than normal this year but my Wood Brothers 1 row would put more corn in the crib per acre than that thing it just might take a month to do what JD can do in a day.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 8:28am
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Maybe I should start work on the vacuum and separator so I can live off that $100,000 per farm that JD leaves behind.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 8:48am
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The worst around here was corn done by a 2 year old red one. the field is greener than my lawn it's unbelievable. More than common loss or ear shatter. Growing up I was not use to this didn't see it until the bigger deeres were around of course back then a farmer wouldn't put up with it. Remember the good old days when no matter what color tractors a farm had there was always a gleaner there. That is until the kids took over. ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: Roddo
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 9:27am
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It probably boils down to the fact that back in the 60's and 70's most people farmed a couple hundred acres or so and had time to slow down and do it right.
Now you have 1/4 the amount of the farmers, farming thousands of acres by themselves. If dropping a few more grains on the ground means getting the stuff out of the field before the weather goes to hell, then its just collateral damage.
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Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 10:02am
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Roddo,your right but he could have adjusted it right and still flew through that field.It seems they worry about a few bushels an acre when fertilizing, planting,spraying or that extra row too close to the road just not combining plus they had a record start this year and probly the finish also. People farming a couple hundred acres with the little equipment of that time period were just as worried about the weather but loss also."signed the son of a X small farmer". ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: NEJim
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 10:23am
| It is in the setting of the combines. Deere's seem to leave more grain out there then any other brand. I have a couple neighbors that just want to brag about how many acres they covered in a day then how many bushels went to town. You can tell which acres were done with a Deere when you drive thru the country side...... |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 10:29am
| We were just out that way ourselves to Arcola and it was pretty amazing to see those fields green with young corn. Very unusual weather and season for sure. As others have said, you have to realize is that 1/2 bushel per acre is both a danred reasonable loss at harvest AND a very heavy seeding rate. And this year due to both early harvest and warm weather it all is growing. |
Posted By: Leonard
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 10:41am
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I just got done driving from Washington State to Pennsylvania and Michigan and back and was amazed to see the different speeds that farmers were driving harvesting corn. I swear the deere drivers were doing between 10 and 15 mph in the fields and the Gleaner and others were driving a reasonable speed. It just amazed me to see them going so fast. Could that be the reason for the excessive grain loss? Leonard |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 7:55pm
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So back when you were combining 2 rows of 110 or even 130 bushel corn at up to 3 mph, you think you lost less than your neighbor does today in 200 bushel (or more) at 6 mph with an 8 or 12 row head? You know I seriously doubt it, those old corn heads shelled a lot more than todays do. How much 15% corn or even 12% corn did you ever run? This was an unusual year, the corn crop was harvested at least a month or more before normal. The ground was warm, the weather was warm, so a lot more corn germinated. We took 90% of our corn out in September before the beans were mature, the wettest was 17%.
If the corn was harvested in October or November you wouldn't see the green stuff even if 2 or 3 times as much was on the ground, so would it be a better job of harvesting if everyone just waited till it got cold and took the field loss?
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Posted By: norm [ind]
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 7:57pm
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iagree with leonard too much speed talke to a fella[worker] they had some common sense shown took the combine [ 8row] went across the end 5mph did not change combine same field next 8 rows 3mph no corn to speak of told his father in law that has been happening every year an he would not beleive him these new combines are tested on enginr torque an the driver is trying to get that pic an as john says corn is dry not pulling as hard an it is going on thru was also lotld the deeres
STS STANDS STRAIGHT THRU SEEDING
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Posted By: Brad(WI)
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 8:07pm
| this year is bad for head shelling. We had excellent yields, high test weight (58+) and low moisture. I had a field that was at 17% moisture and we were waiting for a truck. I picked up 2 ears of lodged corn that the combine missed and threw them in the corn head. They exploded with kernals flying everywhere. I think at least 15-20% of the kernals fell off the ear when they hit the head. Never seen it like that. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 9:38pm
| In our area there were so many small ears that went through the stripper plates and was shelled with the rollers. Plus the moisture was 12% makeing it shell off easy. MACK |
Posted By: Eric[IL]
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 12:40am
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The losses are caused from CORNHEAD SHELLING of the parched corn seed on the ears. When grain moisture gets below 17-19%, significant header losses begin happening. From 19 % & up, very little header loss happens. In central Illinois this year, many of the corn fields where harvested in dry condition 12 - 16 %. Please don't blame the operators or different brands of machines. It is not relative. Someone on hear stated how fast a John Deere was picking. Actually, that is not a bad idea when corn is this dry. The more ears you can keep in the header the better a cushion you might create for the incoming plants??
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 6:19am
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I haven't seen any sprouting corn this year but it's Minnesota. My experience is over many years. In the spring you can go from one farmer's field to another farmer's field and see a difference in voluntary corn. That tells me harvest loss could be from one or two reasons. Either the two farmers have two very different variety of corn or one is a poor combine operator. There is a third and it's if the farmer with the volunteer corn problem used an inferior harvester. Like an old IH or Oliver picker or a John Deere combine pre 1980's. I'm not kidding. You could pick out the John Deere fields in the spring 25 or 30 years ago back when I first was getting serious about farming. That's when I started paying attention. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 6:43am
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We must of never had a bad year from the 70's to the 90's like it was this year to cause that much loss.Our combine must have shot most of the kernals into the ground thats why you would only see a half dozen every 25 feet or so.Also glad to hear that combines are the same, all the old international owners must have got together and decided to quit combining beans 2 hours ahead of everybody else in the evening because it is suspose to be the same as gleaner. ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 7:08am
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Think modern days. Way back when, it was colder than a well digger's butt and arond thanksgiving when folks were still puttering in the fields.
I don't see any difference just looking at the fileds tht were harvested by a yellow or red combine.
Aren't some of you folks just arbitrarily putting the bite on JD?
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Posted By: Brian F(IL)
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 8:44am
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John, Brad, and Eric have described the scenario very well. This year it didn't matter what model combine you used, you had more shelling at the head. Dry corn, down corn, variability in setting stripper plates, etc. You can't blame it on the operators either. Just a unique year. And, yes, I had one of those fields that turned green too.
Brian F(IL)
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Posted By: NEJim
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 9:02am
| All brands are made to do the job. But it still comes down to setting the machine and using common sense in speed and looking behind the combine for grain left in the fields. Also stopping and looking between the header and the rear of the combine to see where the grainloss is coming from, header shatter or out the rear of the combine. It's doesn't take rocket science to figure out where the grain is coming from... |
Posted By: AtuckerKY
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 9:17am
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Two comments
I think it is all how the combine is set. I have two neighbors that have the same JD combine one guys field is green with corn and the other does not have any corn up and they were both shelled within a day of each other. The guy that has the "clean" field runs 3.2 mph and the other guy runs over 4.5 mph.
Second comment. My cousin sells Massey equipment and he demo a draper header to a guy and in dry beans the draper header shatter lose was 1 bean every 4 square foot compared to a conventional header in the same field of 16 bean shatter lose. ------------- Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field. Eisenhower, Dwight D. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 9:17am
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2 years ago my tennant must have left 1/4th of the corn on the ground. It was just like Jack was seeing. A week after harvest, the fields looked like the lawn until we got a hard freeze. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 12:05pm
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I'm not saying that there aren't bad years for field shelling, this is one of them. I'm saying the older John Deere corn heads left more in the field than a comparable Gleaner or IH. This was years ago. Today I have no idea except I suspect all brands of heads are pretty good today. BTW anytime I can put the bite on Deere I'll do it. :-) ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: RSponenberg
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 5:29pm
| Most people are in such a hurry to get things done today.They just wont take the time to stop the combine and check!! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2010 at 5:50am
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Not all large operators are that way. One of the largest in Dodge County here does a real fine job of combining. Even this year with all the shelling going on they did real good. An older guy down the road from me put his farm up for bids for this year and got some large operator running it and it's the worst bean combining job I've ever seen. Beans left everywhere. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: RSponenberg
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2010 at 4:59pm
| My tenant left beans to but he had help from a hail storm.But his oats this year NOW that was HIS fault,heck I could go out and cut it again its that BAD.Blew it out the back!!!And he wonders why I dont let him combine for me..... |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2010 at 9:38pm
| Well,for all you critics,I saw a field today that was green as a gourd with corn sprouts(solid).I made several trips past this same field in early Sept when they were harvesting it.It is a seed corn field harvested by Burris Seeds just east of Meredosia IL.Wasn't any combine spitting it out the back.All head shelling from the ear picker.This field hasn't been tilled yet like the ones accross the road that are even greener. |
Posted By: Jack(Ky)
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2010 at 10:36pm
| The fields I seen were in the Mattoon-Cooks Mill area. I didn't realize I would get so many responses to this. I guess there are a lot of reasons for loss of crop. I have never used a combine and used a picker very little but I just assumed there was very little loss.JP |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2010 at 11:25am
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Lonn, woulder that be Hader's farms? They have Clauss and Lexion combines and run Cat equip. Seen them send semi loads of corn down the road every 6 2/3 minutes at harvest time using just 3 combines. And up to seven combines on beans.
Very impressive operation.
Lot has to do with the how the operator operates the equipment and how good they are with maintenance and settings/adjustments of their combines for prevention of loss of grain.
Fellow up here had combined oats and it was thicker than a hair on a dog where the combine had run, looked like maybe 30%. So much that he could have made another crop just cutting the strips for hay.
yup, Lots to do with the operator.
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Posted By: RSponenberg
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2010 at 6:53pm
| Yes it has alot to do with the operator,some just drive the combine and never get out of the seat...lol. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2010 at 7:14pm
Nope, not Hader. A few years ago Kramer Farms was the largest in Dodge County and they are the ones who do a real nice job. Now Hader and Molitor have moved into the area big time in the past 3 or 4 years. Molitor semis go by all the time. 6 years ago I never heard of Molitor. I think that's the outfit Kirby Pucket may have invested in at one time along with Carl Pohlad. Not sure though. Molitor Farms is related to Paul Molitor. Hader is real big too. They call them "lord incorporated" around here. So-called real good Christians that will move into your area and outbid longtime renters out of the land. They have started one or two churches and use the churches for every tax loophole they can. They don't do any business with the dealership I worked at but they'll call on a Sunday morning demanding service when they are in the area. Can you tell I don't exactly like Hader Farms? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
JC(WI) wrote:Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2010 at 8:23pm
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LONN.. just checked out this Molitor Farms operation .. 709,000 in ag subsidies for this giant ..from 95 through 2009 ..
WOW ------------- WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer |