Who engineered this thing ???
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=196038
Printed Date: 22 Oct 2024 at 6:29pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Who engineered this thing ???
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Subject: Who engineered this thing ???
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 10:41pm
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I believe this seat mechanism could work as a conibear trap !!!! Ridiculous is what it is ..    ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Replies:
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 4:31am
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Macon It’s definitely a finger bone crusher! Trap! I always thought they’d have lasted forever had they used greasable bearings. People don’t take the time weekly to oil bushings and they sure don’t move a whole heck of a lot. I’ve repaired every one on my 24 Allis. Well actually 23, the C has a bench🤭and that had no bushings😆. Fix em up best you can and enjoy! Dana ------------- Blue Skies and Tail Winds Dana |
Posted By: Steve A
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 5:56am
| I've replaced the spring shock absorber with an air shock and that made a big difference. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 6:44am
| The biggest issue with those well-designed suspensions, is the fact that the coil spring loses its strength over years of use and maybe we are a heavier people than we were in 1957 when it was first introduced. I've been adding a one inch long thin pipe spacer to the top of the spring to make up for that and it raises up the seat pan a bunch. Starting out higher gives you more suspension travel so you won't hit the bottom !!! An air shock I have thought of but air temps would affect how it could work and do you have an on-board air compressor ?? It should work better because I imagine all your old stuff was worn out anyway. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 7:12am
| Heartily agree with what Doc says. Had to heat the hinge to remove seat pin and now using one of his modified assemblies on a 170. What a difference! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 7:17am
| I replaced my D17 shock\spring and bushings. I was thankful the guy I bought it from alwasy stored in inside. I just tapped the roll pins and seat pins out and tapped the new ones in. EASY |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 7:20am
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Seat on the D15 I'm stewarding tips forward such that it feels like you want to slide off all the time. Is there a way to level it up? |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 8:09am
| Rebuilt both the seats on our D 15s . Wasn't very easy for me, but a lot more comfortable now. Good luck |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 8:15am
| If the linkage is all in good condition, I'd weld a couple of tabs on the rear tips of the flip up part to hold the front of the seat higher. Now, if it doesn't have an actual A-C seat pan, that is the problem. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 10:56am
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My gripe for the day !! Never had a seat assembly that bottom pivot wasn't worn thru or almost threw the bushings. That is if the tractor has more than 1000 hours on it or someone hasn't already repaired it. You can't even replace the shock assembly without removing bottom pivot pin and that is not a simple task. here are 4 different seat assemblys currenly in use...         Yellow tractor has less than 1000 hours  ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 11:23am
| I replace those two bronze bushings with a steel pipe/bushing stock. This allows a damaged hole to be repaired by welding one piece of pipe where two bronze bushings were before. Drill a small hole in the top center so it can be oiled. Never attempt to remove those small roll pins. Lay the suspension in its side on a pipe and with a 4 lb hammer and 7/16" punch drive the pin downward shearing off the roll pin. Easy ?? Not bad when you have a solid bench and proper pipe and blocking. I can't hit as hard as 40 years ago but 6 or 7 good whacks usually gets it. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 11:42am
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Yep drilling those roll pins is a waist of time. Pounding out is the way !! Usually lay it up on the anvil "with a helper" and still get it glowing red. And 4 # works well... I did this one by myself, yea.... not a pretty site. Heating it up and chasing it around the garage floor. Grrrrr !!!! if you can see on the floor I manufactured some longer brass bushings. I do drill a hole for oil and have even put grease fitting in them. longer bushings keep them from migrating out or I have just put washers between the factory bushings.... The ones I have repaired should never need replaced again, except for the shock. And the next repair man will thank me. I use antiseze ... ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 1:26pm
| Who engineered it? I don’t know, but his grandson engineered the spare tire system for GM! |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 4:36pm
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Hey that’s a well engineered seat! Lol, grease fittings would have been great! I do love the 2 position seat! They are a bear to disassemble ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 8:19pm
| it is nice to flip back and stand up |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 8:37pm
| I agree with Mike, it's nice to flip the seat back and stand up |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 8:43pm
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Usually keep the D15 flipped back, way easier to get on and off the tractor. Plus a higher riding view of mowing and raking hay. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: atucker
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2023 at 9:28pm
| Looks like the one on our 175. Are you going to buy new cushions for the top and bottom? If so where? We can not find any. I have looked on K and M but no luck |
Posted By: rick ky
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 2:50pm
| start calling dealerships if you need the arm rest or maybe some one will surprise you and say they have a set. price will scare you. All states ag parts did have the cushions. can't remember the other person that has the front and back. K&M doesn't that style any more. my d17 seat takes on water very aggravating after a rain. don't remember having that wet of a seat back in the 60s and 70s.the d17 Cushions from K&M are only 2years old. |
Posted By: jeickman01
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 3:13pm
| Good info here even though i'll never be able to find it again if I ever go to fix my seat suspension. Not a big deal since I don't use my D17 III to earn a living. Actually, in response to the very first comment I think the original engineer did a very good job in coming up with a seat that one could quickly flip up and back for easier getting onto a low platform tractor or just to stand up while operating. These are 50 year old designs that served the purpose before the advent of ergonomic engineers. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 4:21pm
Another hour with the hot wrench, 4# hammer and a good helper.... Sucess !!!     This rust is bigger job than Oxpho can handle.... Sand blaster is next step. ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 4:37pm
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This might be a well engineered mechanism but they Sure didn't consider maintenance when the designed it. ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: KJCHRIS
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 7:25pm
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Maybe they didn't design them for those of us that went past the 200 pound mark a long time ago. My father & uncle never got over about 175 lbs, me well I was larger than both in high school. I've rebuild 5 on tractors I own and several for friends. Even rebuilt the cushion frame for 2 Deluxe seats on 180's. It makes them so much nicer to spend a long day on the tractor. I had the spring/shock back-ordered on one so just put it together with original. It evidently didn't need it, as I can't make it bottom out. ------------- AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B, |
Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 9:58am
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. You need to remember that if you're running a large engineering development group you're going to put the talent on engines, gears, and hydraulics. Seats get given to 'the new guy' fresh out of school. And fighting with the finance group for every nickel of improvement. Or under pressure for where can a nickel be removed from the cost of the tractor... .
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Posted By: garden_guy
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 12:37pm
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I had a heck of a time rebuilding my aftermarket Knoedler seat for my WD when we fixed her up a couple of years ago. This thread makes that look like a cakewalk lol. I got parts from McMaster, Steiner, and had some machine shops help me out along the way, too. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 1:14pm
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My D17's seat bottoms out on me frequently... I would not discount possibility that prior generations of men were smaller than my 6ft 220lb frame, PARTICULARLY first-generator immigrants, as it's clear that farm life in America yielded significantly better nutrition than where our ancestors ventured FROM... But my Grandfather and his brothers were clearly not smaller, and they weren't first, or even second generation... My grandpa was a mountain of a man... at least 7" taller than me, and could palm a basketball while holding a baseball between two knuckles of the same hand. He put his saddle on his Percherons, and the proportions looked totally normal... other than the saddle looking small. ;-) My grandfather bottomed out his D17 seat all the time... back when I pulled the hay rake, it never bottomed under my (then 160lb) weight. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 9:42pm
| Dave, you would really like your D-17 seat suspension with a 1 inch spacer added above the top of the coil spring. I've been running the shock in the middle of the slot instead of clear forward and the seat sits up 2 inches or more higher. You will like it. Spacer I use is a piece of exhaust pipe of the right diameter cut to one inch length. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 10:00pm
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Would love to see photos of exhaust pipe spacer installed on seat... and The air shock fix. Part number of air shock would be much appreciated. This will not be my last seat repair. I always appreciate ideas and advice . ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 10:30pm
| There were some pics from very early this Spring on the One-Seventy of plummerscarins 2 3/4" raised platform thread. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2023 at 11:20pm
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I'll look for them. ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2023 at 5:05am
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Thanks a lot Macon. Rainy weather here and I thought I’d be fishing yesterday….but with your thread I wound up fixing a 185 and 175 seat bushings and 7040 seat. Jeesh. BIL said the river was too high anyways 🙁 ------------- Blue Skies and Tail Winds Dana |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2023 at 5:07am
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I too can not find the pics of Doc’s one inch shock extension which I desperately need. HELP!!! ------------- Blue Skies and Tail Winds Dana |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2023 at 5:25am
| "Raised seat/platform 170/175" bumped to just above this thread |
Posted By: Steve A
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2023 at 3:41pm
Air shock I used was a Monroe 48785. You have to cut the lower bushing lengthwise to fit and I made an adapter out of small angle iron and some flat stock for the upper, as the shock is about 2 inches longer than the stock one. That was the shortest shock I could find. I made a little bracket for the valve stem to fill and attached it with a hose clamp. Picture attached, bracket circled. To Dr. Allis comment: Yes, it would be better with a 12 volt compressor attached, but I air it up in the morning, and it lasts a 10 hr day of my 190 lbs on it. 
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Posted By: Steve A
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2023 at 3:46pm
Better pic of the shock. This one is on my WD seat. 
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2023 at 9:45pm
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When I rebuilt my D17 seat I also replaced the shock with a standard shock. It made a big difference, I’m 200 lbs and it rides very nice. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |