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Generator system ??

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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=195497
Printed Date: 24 Sep 2024 at 3:32am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Generator system ??
Posted By: Tyee II
Subject: Generator system ??
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 7:48am
I have several D series tractors and struggle with keeping the generator charging systems functional. Is there a good source that explains the systems and the maintenance and repair of them ?



Replies:
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:32am
the old charge systems have 3 parts... The Generator... the Voltage Regulator.. and the wires between them.   A voltage regulator is 3 sets of electrical contacts / spring mounted and adjusted. over the years the springs get week, the contacts get burnt, the adjustment is not set right..... Regulators can be a major problem and should be SET or TUNED to the application, not just Generic.

Generator has two terminals, the  "A" armature and "F" the field.... Think of the "A" as being the output (HOT) and the "F"  field as being the ground..  To bypass the Regulator for a test, you can GROUND the F terminal with a jumper.. See if the amp meter jumps up.. also use a voltmeter to test from "A" to GROUND with the jumper in place.. IF you get 6.7 volts ( 6 volt system) or 14 volts ( 12 v system) then you know the Generator is GOOD and the Regulator is the problem....

Old generators can get worn out brushes or shorted wires inside, or dragging bearings, etc....Everything has to be narrowed down to get things to work. Sometimes getting a rebuilt Generator and a NEW regulator set to match is the best long term solution.

There is a guy STEVE at B&B on this site that can do the work for you if you want a professional, long term fix.


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:38am
wiring looks something like this .... again, ground the "F" wire and check with a voltmeter to see if you have any output at the "A" terminal..

also touching the BAT and GEN terminals together for 1 second will TRAIN an old generator to start charging again.  Some of them "forget" what to do over long periods of time..   Wink





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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Leadoff
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:44am
Tyee II

Here are some links to helpful info on generators and voltage regulators.  I have three Gen/VR tractors, and the systems work fine if maintained properly. 

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ac&th=92006" rel="nofollow - WD Generator Question - Yesterday's Tractors (yesterdaystractors.com)
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=436116" rel="nofollow - 8n will not charge battery - Yesterday's Tractors (yesterdaystractors.com)
http://www.southernwheels.com/March-07.htm" rel="nofollow - March-07 (southernwheels.com)
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/articles/artint29.htm" rel="nofollow - Yesterday's Tractors - Two-Brush Generators (yesterdaystractors.com)
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/delco_remy_generator.pdf" rel="nofollow - delco_remy_generator.pdf (bowersflybaby.com)

There are also several "experts" on this Forum and numerous discussions over the years on the Gen/VR topic (try a search)

Lots of YouTubes, many for older cars and garden tractors, on the topic

Some of the top trouble shooting checks would be....

1. clean to shiny all the wire terminals, battery posts, ground connections to the tractor (remove paint and oil where the Gen and VR touch/ground to the tractor

2. Remove the cover of the VR and clean the contacts of both sets of points

Good luck



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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:48am
you can CLEAN and POLISH the contacts inside the regulator and that can help.. You have to know what your doing to ADJUST it... Possibly that has been already done and is out of Whack..... here is another reference from DELCO.

http://www.ruiter.ca/mc/info/PDFs/1R-116.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.ruiter.ca/mc/info/PDFs/1R-116.pdf



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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 10:59am
After you rebuild the genny, and regulator ,replace 100% of the original wiring ! Over 5-6 DECADES, it's not 'reliable'. Wires corrode, connectors corrode, screws corrode,......
it's an age 'thing'.


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 9:19pm
Take them to someone who really KNOWS them.  After 60 years, many of these generators have not seen any maintenance, so neglect is the probably the number 1 reason for their poor performance.  I take mine to a local starter and alternator repair shop.  They do a thorough cleaning, replace and adjust the brushes, replace the bearings and lubricate everything.  They also load test them to make sure they are working properly.  It will come back as good as new.  Have them provide you with a new voltage regulator as well.  Most of the time, that is all these things need to work again.

I had one on my D17 diesel which worked sporadically, but after they replaced the armature, it works amazing every time. 

I have 12 tractors with generators.  After getting it professionally rebuilt, rarely do I have to touch the generator again.  Any subsequent problems usually are with the voltage regulators that are cheaply made these days.


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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 7:46am
Great info sources from all the guys.  When rebuilding old Generators, they need to be completely gutted, new Armatures put in them along with all the components that make up the unit. From there, as Steve mentioned the correct Voltage Regulator needs to be mated to the unit and set up properly. I've been rebuilding these units for over 50 years. Every Gennie that comes in my shop gets the "full treatment". The unit then gets a VR mated to it and run on the 881 machine to dial it in.  Once its done its ready for service. The unit is basically brand new inside, and is ready for many, many years of service providing the wiring system that works with it is in tip top shape! People forget. You can have a real nice rebuilt Generator, but its only going to work as good as the system it connected too! Make sure the wiring system is just as good and you won't have any troubles. In most cases if the wiring system is original, that should be replaced as well not knowing how many Gremblins can be in a 60+ year old system. This includes the Battery & Battery cables as well whether 6V or 12V system.   Thanks for the mention Steve!
Steve@B&B


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: Oldwrench
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 8:21am
The above posts are right on.  Don't waste your money buying a TSC or some generic regulator.  Aftermarket VR's seem to be in about the same dismal quality as points and condensers.  Just a waste of time and money.  One thing I did with by 17IV is have the generator rebuilt by a competent shop, then used a solid state VR.  That has worked out really well.  OTOH, our 1951 Farmall 200 has its original generator and regulator, and works as perfectly as the day it was made (knock on wood!) so they certainly can be durable if well maintained.


Posted By: dkattau
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 9:04am
If you’re serious about learning how Delco charging and starting systems function and want to do the work yourself, invest in a Deere FOS(fundamentals of service) manual for electrical systems. It’ll explain how everything works and how to diagnose.


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 9:05am
I'll agree with the solid state VR's seem to do alright and the aftermarket original types are more/less garbage. I have both 6V, and 12V generators not on tractors but rather antique Mack trucks, and Hobart welders and nothing wrong with them in operation.


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A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.


Posted By: Leadoff
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 1:52pm
Previous Posters to this Thread

Just trying to be helpful.........this Thread started out with a request for info on generator/VR repair and maintenance.  The responses from Forum members has been excellent.

However, there does not seem to be any feedback/update on how the originating problem/issue turned out, was it resolved, not solved, still an issue?

The issue was raised last June, and rebooted today with continuation of excellent help postings

I am just flagging the status of the Thread situation here, and hopefully the need for info/help has been resolved




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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 3:44pm
what have you guys been using for a Solid State Regulator... About 99% of them listed are for ALTERNATORS.  Who builds a good one to use on a Generator ?

I think a lot of the problems with MECHANICAL Regulators is buying the WRONG one.. If you have an old farm tractor , you need a regulator that can work at 8-9 amps Total... Many of the "auto" regulators were 30- 35 amps... That is not "ideal" for a farm tractor.


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Oldwrench
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 3:52pm
My solid state VR for the D17 was from Clover Systems, a model DR110.  I put it on in 2014, and they may not be in business anymore.  However, many of the vintage car forums have similar generator systems, and have references to other more current vendors. 

Edited:

Here is their website:

https://cloversystems.designscience.info/products/legacy-products/dynamo-regulator-2/" rel="nofollow - https://cloversystems.designscience.info/products/legacy-products/dynamo-regulator-2/

Edit#2:

Oops!  Looks like they are no longer in business, but left their website up.



Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 11:40pm
Steve is correct again. Two things people do wrong with Generators. First, they don't mate the correct VR with the unit. "Universal" VR's are BS and incorrect to start off with. You need to mate the correct VR with the units output and dial the two together on an 881 machine or equiv.  Second problem people do not do with VR's is make sure they are grounded!! If you just had the Generator or the Tractor all painted nice, paint makes a good insulator and the VR will NOT be grounded. I always tell our customer's to run a ground wire from the VR's chassis to the Battery ground. This insures the VR's chassis is grounded so it will work correctly or just work period.
Steve@B&B


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 9:53pm
I definitely suggest getting it to Steve. He rebuilt my generator for my D17 series 1 diesel. New wiring harness, new matching VR. Works like it should. I appreciated his assistance when I had questions.

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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2024 at 2:48am
If you look at the procession of this thread, you'll see that it went dormant in June of last year.

The reason why it was restarted, was due to a spammer's necropost.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.



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