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wd45 cooling problems

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=194213
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 8:35am
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Topic: wd45 cooling problems
Posted By: hunter321
Subject: wd45 cooling problems
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 9:24am
i have a wd45 that i have been working on for a while and i finnaly replaced the broken tempature gauge. in the process of replacing the temperature gauge I accidentally cracked the radiator at the base of the temperature gauge. i patched it with radiator repair stuff from jb weld but it kept overheating. it leaks from the hoses a little and I don't know what to do. what is the normal operating temperature. any help is appreciated. i am 16. 



Replies:
Posted By: ANDY T
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 9:47am
is the lines going to the waterpump hot? thats the first thing i would check to make sure waterpump is working.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 9:54am
the rubber hoses? I haven't checked them. i just noticed the radiator was steaming and water was coming out of the crack. it only started after i cracked the radiator.


Posted By: ANDY T
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 9:57am
you mave not have sealed up the crack good enough.   id bring it in to get fixed if it were mine..


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 10:14am
ok i will take it to my local ac mechanic and see if he can fix it. 


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 10:29am
When up to temp it will "steam" if the cap is off. It's not that hot really just warm enough to vaporize.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 1:44pm
ok,
the reason it was steaming was because of a crack. i just assumed that the steam meant it was overheating. the temperature gauge needle was in the red at 220 degrees 


Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 4:01pm
If the radiator has not been boiled out before, I would get that done at the same time.  Then you know everything is good.


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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 8:38pm
If things are correct ,it should never get in the red no matter how you load it. I'd want to know my Guage was right. Use an infra-red gun on tank.


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 10:00pm
does it overheat if the cap is left off ?  if not you may have a bad head gasket,  have you checked for compression in the radiator ?.


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 11:57pm
Hunter- some basic physics things you need to keep in mind:

Your modern automobile or truck runs in what's called a 'pressurized' system, meaning, the coolant is absorbing heat from the engine, so it's temperature rises.  With temperature rise, two things happen- first, the liquid expands a little, and second,  As the temperature rises, the 'vapor pressure' of the liquid changes, and evaporation accellerates.  Both of these cause the gaseous volume inside the cooling system to decrease, which means pressure inside is rising. 

There's a point in liquid heating and vapor-pressure curves where the liquid wants to become a gas... but it's not just all about heat, it's about heat and pressure.  Add more pressure, and the boiling point rises.

In the case of a can of water on the stove, at Iowa altitude, you can put a thermometer in that water (but don't let it touch the can) and start heating the water.  As it warms, you'll see a little steam start wisping off... that's evaporation...  and eventually, you'll see bubbles form, and a little while later, you'll see it boil.  At each point, you'll see the temperature of the water rise...  but the you'll hit 212F, water will be in full boil.  At that point, you can turn up the heat of the stove as high as you want, it will boil more aggresively, but that water will NOT rise above 212F... because it is amidst phase change... water, at atmospheric pressure of 800ft ASL or so, will exist as liquid form from 32F to 212F only.  Below that, it's solid (ice) and above that, it's steam.

Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14psi.  If you were to close up that can, and pressurize it by say... 5psi... the boiling point would go up to 226.8F.

Likewise, coolant in an engine with a sealed cooling system and a 5psi radiator cap, will never exceed 226.8... as long as there's water in that system.  If you ever find yourself around a running water-hopper hit-and-miss, dip a thermometer in the hopper, you'll see that the water is always no warmer than 212.  As long as you keep putting liquid water IN, the engine will NEVER overheat.
Here's a good calc:  https://www.calctool.org/thermodynamics/boiling-point" rel="nofollow - https://www.calctool.org/thermodynamics/boiling-point

In the cooling system, the liquid's temperature rises to a point where the liquid starts 'phase change'... meaning, it's boiling, and as it does that, pressure in the system comes up.  Eventually, the closed system's pressure will, by virtue of that phase change curve, rise to the point where the graphed lines of developed pressure, in the system, and the temperature in the system, match, and that's where your system pressure and temperature will BE.

The 'gotcha', is that if you have a leak, it 1) won't hold pressure and 2) the volume of water is decreasing, thus the available volume for gases is increasing... so it throws everything for a loop.

The crack in the radiator isn't an unusual thing, it happens to all of us more often than we'd like to admit... but until you get that fixed, and then do a pressure test (for a leaking head gasket, water pump, hose, etc), you won't have a stable system.  You'll also get crazy antics out of engines that might not be leaking COOLANT out, but combustion gases (from the combustion chambers into the water jacket) are 'falsely pressurizing' the cooling system.

There are clever ways to determine all these things... the combustion pressure leak is one of my favorites-  start it up cold, with the cap off, and once it's running and warming, look into the radiator.  If you see it sending bubbles up long after it's been started, you got a combustion gases leak.  The biggest problem with combustion leaks, is that the combustion gas bubbles can accumulate at high spots in the head, and with a gas bubble in there, the transfer of heat is prevented, so you'll get 'hot spots'.  Allis heads aren't very susceptible to hot spotting from bubbles... but the Ford Industrial 192 four in my Hyster forklift WAS... until I did a cooling mod that prevents bubbles from accumulating.

As for your radiator, the guy my local buddies all recommend, is Bill's Radiator & Automotive on 11th St in DeWitt.  I think Jerrod is the name they've mentioned, but they're a recommended go-to for all radiators antiquish.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 8:52am
i will look into this stuff. after reading what you had to say i think the crack letting pressure escape is the main problem. before i cracked it it never had problems with steaming, not shure what the temp was because the old temp aguge was broken


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 9:29am
i am taking my radiator into the shop on wednesday.
i was wondering would the radiator from a wd work for my wd45


Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 9:51am
Bring the Radiator to a Radiator shop. They'll boil out the Radiator and fix anything that needs repair.  You should be in great shape providing the water pump is in good shape.

Steve@B&B


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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 10:44am
Ok would it work though


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 1:04pm
WD has different neck angle. Could maybe use a flex hose? Not what I'd do but sometimes you are forced into situations.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 1:33pm
ok 
i thought they looked simmilar thanks


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 1:36pm
what is the copper tube that attatches to hte fill pourt for


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2023 at 5:08pm
over flow if the cap is working right


Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 5:38am
Parts book shows the same part number for the WD and WD45.  Should be the same thing.
AaronSEIA


Posted By: Tom IA
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 7:55am
Don't forget to check the thermostat. a sticking one can cause all kinds of problems


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 8:02am
How do I know if it is stuck


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 9:11am
you can put it in a pan of water and a thermomoter on the stove and see if it opens and closes proper and at what temp it opens,      every one has a candy thermomter


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 9:28am
i will try that after i get the radiator fixed thanks


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 8:14am
Any idea what it might cost too get the radiator fixed


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 9:02pm
No but I bet the guy you take it to can give an estimate and the possible scenereous what it could cost depending on what he runs into.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 1:02pm
At what temperature is the thermostat supposed to open


Posted By: sparky
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 1:14pm
Rule of thumb average I’d say is 180-190 degrees.

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It's the color tractor my grandpa had!


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 2:34pm

This is the thermostat I have.
I think parts are missing


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2023 at 8:06am
I need to get new hoses for the radiator. What size are they.
I need the hose from the water pump to the thermostat
I need the hose from the bottom of the water pump to the radiator


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2023 at 9:07am
I'll tell you like my 17 yr old grand son....measure the length of old hoses BEFORE taking apart and pay attention to how they fit on the ends lengthwise. The rad hoses are just straight hose. The bypass hose can be bought at auto supply as a trim to fit 90. Probably all available from AGCO but maybe cheaper from NAPA.


Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 6:34am
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

I'll tell you like my 17 yr old grand son....measure the length of old hoses BEFORE taking apart and pay attention to how they fit on the ends lengthwise. The rad hoses are just straight hose. The bypass hose can be bought at auto supply as a trim to fit 90. Probably all available from AGCO but maybe cheaper from NAPA.

That used to be true in our area, but NAPA has gone absolutely crazy on prices around here. I like NAPA's stuff, but I have found that I can buy most stuff from a dealer cheaper than NAPA.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 8:49am
is the bypass hose the hose that goes from the thermostat housing to the water pump


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 10:48am
i have to get a new radiator. what do i do with the old one


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 1:07pm
Around here it goes to the scrap metal yard/recycle place. They weigh it and pay you .


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 5:15pm
a bypass hose is normally a bout 3/4 inch diameter... and goes around the thermostat.

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 2:07pm
i know this off topic but i need to know where i can get the bracket that the carb float attatches to. i am going to ahve a shop replace it but i need the part
is this right. the carb is a tsx 561
http://https://robertscarbrepair.com/key-98-float-bracket-2/" rel="nofollow - http://https://robertscarbrepair.com/key-98-float-bracket-2/

should i get a quote on how much it would cost the shop to do it all


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 9:07pm
That particular carb part was NEVER available from AC some 50 or more years ago. Roberts should know that !! Call Bill Deppe in Maquoketa and get a used carb or he probably has one ready to go.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 9:22pm
So my carburetor is junk


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2023 at 9:25pm
I wouldn't waste my time. Use it for any good parts it might have. Get a different carb.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2023 at 8:04am
Ok I will try to get a new one from bills in n maqukata
Maybe he can fix it


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2023 at 9:59am
Bill Deppe will not have a "new" carb, but will probably have a used/rebuilt carb ready to go.  563-357-2615


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2023 at 10:27am
That's what I meant


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2023 at 8:17am
With the new radiator in place and a different lower radiator hose the tractor doesn't get over 120 much.
The hosr came from a different wd and had been on that tractor for at least 50 years with no damage


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2023 at 9:20am
again off topic sorry.
what size socket is the wheel ecentrics not the rim stops


Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2023 at 11:26am
3/4"

If they haven't been turned for a while, they turn very hard. I spray them for a couple days with Kroil before I even try them. I always use a 6 point socket. I have a long 3/4" drive breaker bar and two 3/4" drive 3/4" impact sockets; one regular and one deep well. I have never had this setup fail me yet.

When I was a kid, I remember Dad using a 1/2" drive 3/4" socket, extension and a 1/2" breaker bar (all Craftsmen). If he couldn't turn them, he would put his Handyman jack under the breaker bar. Many times, he actually jacked the back tire off the ground. If it still didn't loosen, he would hit it with a sledgehammer. It either loosened or broke the socket, extension or breaker bar. Sears replaced a lot of them!!!


Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2023 at 5:32pm
If they have been marinating in calcium chloride for years, they may need more drastic treatment...

https://youtu.be/l2qXT3GGc5w" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/l2qXT3GGc5w


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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!


Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2023 at 8:35pm
A good video but I do not reuse lock washers. Once flattened they loose their lock the next time. Found that out on a Onan engine after I replaced the sump gasket. Had to pull the engine again to replace the lock washers after the engine vibrated loose and began leaking oil. No issue after replacing them.

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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD


Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2023 at 8:46am
Originally posted by hunter321 hunter321 wrote:

again off topic sorry.
what size socket is the wheel ecentrics not the rim stops
I found that a 20mm socket fits the best. Have one I welded a 3/4" drive adapter in. Haven't had to use it in a few years now.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 03 May 2023 at 1:20pm
What would happen if I put the wrong carburetor on a tractor.
For example a Ford carburetor on ona wd45


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 8:30am
if i had a carburetor that fit the tractor but was not the correct one would it work


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 2:04pm
how does the rod with thegreen arrow pointing at it attach to the tractor. one of mine is broken.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 10:53pm
Find the picture of the brake shoes....you'll see the part it screws into


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 05 May 2023 at 8:11am

Can you mark the connection point


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 May 2023 at 8:24am
bottom right ....it's called a toggle pin. That rod screws into it . They get rusty and twist off if forced to turn. Once everything is set up in correct  position/clearance with the brake shoes, that rod never needs adjusted again. Brake adjustment is done through top covers on rear housing.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 May 2023 at 8:28pm
An attempt to answer the carburetor question:  A carburetor is spec'd and configured to fit and work properly on a specific engine. It is designed to start well at almost any temperature. It is designed to allow the engine to operate from 400 RPM idle speed up to the maximum speed the engineers designed the engine for. It is designed to produce a specific HP and fuel consumpion at a specific engine speed. I can't imagine what you're trying to do, but you'll save yourself a lot of time and $$$$ by just using what carb the tractor/engine was designed for.


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 05 May 2023 at 9:23pm
get  the right carb because nothing will not hook up right and like the dr says it just will not run or  operate well


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 8:37am
how exactly do i acces the brake rod toggel bolt so i can replace the rod and remove the broken part from the toggel pin


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 12:16am
I doubt you can heat it and get ahold of it with vise grips but to unscrew broken piece that way would be GREAT!! Next you get to learn about the dreaded bottom brake pin removal.
Sometimes they come out without too much trouble but usually you get to use a cutting torch. GOOD LUCK!!


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 9:01am
Thanks
How do I get to the bolt so I can remove it
Is the brake rod on a wd the same as a wd45


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 10:32am
If the wd and wd45 have the same brake rod I could replace it easy


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 1:10pm
If they are not the same where can I get them


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 1:37pm
same according to parts book


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 21 May 2023 at 9:13pm
All of the sudden the tractor won't start and it turns over very sluggish


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 21 May 2023 at 9:17pm
Weak battery? Put it on a charger .


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 22 May 2023 at 8:20am
The battery is fully charged


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 22 May 2023 at 10:20am
After a good battery, check the ground. I had intermittent trouble with one that had corrosion in the cable inside the factory insulation.   Finally it pulled apart as I was cleaning the end again. The cable was on the mid 80's tractor when I got it 10+ years ago. Cable looked very good from the outside.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 22 May 2023 at 10:34am
I will clean all the connections.
So the bad ground caused the tractor to be sluggish and not start


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 24 May 2023 at 8:18am
I cleaned the connection but it still won't start. I have no idea what is wrong I just had it running


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 24 May 2023 at 9:04am
as mentioned, the two most common problems are the battery has not been charging and now needs to be charged up.... or the cables / battery clamps are corroded... Look inside the clamp on the battery cable.. Sometimes you get a black oxide coating that insulates the connection.. Need sand paper or wire brush to get it SHINNY... Look at the battery terminal also... wire brush till BRIGHT.

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 24 May 2023 at 9:09am
ok i will check that when i get home. 


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 8:39am
i cleaned the battery terminals and it helped with the sluggish turn over but i think the fuel system might be air locked


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 9:34am
is there a way to lubricate the starter and flywheel so it might work better


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 6:17pm
I've tried everything you told me to and it still won't start for some reason


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 6:54pm
It started and the pully plug blew out


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 7:23pm
So, put the belt pulley plug back in the hole and get a large 1/2" flatwasher to stick under one of the three bolts near the belt pulley hole to hold the plug so it cannot fall out again.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 7:56am
Is there supposed to be hydraulic fluid behind the plug


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 9:49am
It leaked a lot of hydraulic fluid from the belt pulley plug
Is that bad that fluid came out of there


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 9:54am
On the left side of the tractor ahead of the battery box is a short dipstick. This is for the hydraulic pump. Refill it with hydraulic oil. This oil is what came out of the belt pulley hole.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 10:31am
Ok so when the plug comes out it emptys the hydraulic pump reservoir


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:02am
It doesn't "EMPTY" it. It loses a quart or two out of a 6 quart compartment. Refill until the dipstick says it's full.


Posted By: hunter321
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:03am
Ok I will.
So it is normal for it to have fluid in it


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:51am
YES. If you had a belt pulley, the oil is what lubricates the gears and bearings.



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