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Chassis vs engine s/n's

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment -Knowledge Base
Forum Description: Long term storage of technical article, etc
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=192751
Printed Date: 23 Apr 2024 at 3:27am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Chassis vs engine s/n's
Posted By: DrAllis
Subject: Chassis vs engine s/n's
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2023 at 10:15am
1967 D-17 IV - 88779 / 17- 76066-M engine...........1954 WD45-207288 / 45-81751-G engine.......1957 WD-45-232994 chassis/ 45-94197-G engine.     Trying to establish engine ages versus chassis age by s/n.



Replies:
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2023 at 6:56am

Dr.

You will be pleased to know that Bryan Smith, along with info from Ed Mills, has already done this for a number of Model Tractors.

See attached Link to Bryans' Website:

Gary


        http://wsmth.people.clemson.edu/SNFind/esn_tsn6.htm" rel="nofollow - http://wsmth.people.clemson.edu/SNFind/esn_tsn6.htm


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2023 at 7:40am
I've been somewhat aware that there has been an attempt at this before. If you look at that "assumption" chart, his chassis number age of 207288 doesn't match the engine number age of 81751. I felt this particular chassis/engine combo is legit and is exactly how the tractor was built.  EDIT: I've just now checked my own 1957 WD-45 chassis at 232994 and the engine is 45-94197-G. Both check out to be early 1957. I'm thinking March at 300 tractors per week build rate.


Posted By: 49clipper
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 1:59pm
I just bought a B.  Been looking for a while.  Question;  My 1946 G per serial number had an engine change out and the seller thought it was a 1948 engine.  Per the sn on the case (CE128124) it came out after the last engine was built in 1957.  Hmmm?  the last engine sn I found for 1957 was 127xxx.  Any idea what I have.   According to the code after the casting number of -25, it would be a 1953.  Ideas?


Posted By: 49clipper
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 1:59pm
I meant 1946 'B'. sorry


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 2:25pm
Well, they quit making model "C" tractors in 1949. They replaced the model "C" tractor with the "CA" tractor in 1950.  Each of these tractors (from what I can tell) used the "CE" engine. The CA tractor had more compression and RPM's, but the engine was essentially very similar. The engine s/n charts reflect that, as the C tractor ended (supposedly) with engine CE127393 ??  but the first model CA tractor had engine s/n CE140553 in 1950. The last CA tractor had engine s/n CE200212.  I would venture to say an engine with a s/n CE128124 would make it a 1949 or 1950 engine build. Remember, these engine were made for MANY other applications (grinders, balers, pumps, ferris wheel rides, etc) not just Allis tractors.


Posted By: 49clipper
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 5:59pm
Dr Allis,
     I see.   Only one thing sort of clouds that up, the casting number is -25 which designates 1953.  So, you think the sn would override the casting number, or the casting number code could just be wrong.  I guess it doesn't matter, it seems to be a solid engine so far.  (Too bad these tractors don't have hour meters like the aircraft I work on).  
     OK, thanks for the intel.  I will probably have a lot of questions on this as I rebuild it.

Oh, I am preparing to strip it down to the main structure and sandblast it.   Is that how most do the rebuilt?  This is my first tractor build.

49clipper


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2023 at 6:30pm
How do you know -25 means 1953 ??  As far as all the tractors I've ever painted (maybe 8) I sandblasted all the castings on ONE early on, and I'll never do that again. They were rusty within 2 hrs of the blasting being completed.  Since then, I thoroughly clean all castings, wire brush where needed and hand scuff the rest with red Scotch Brite pads to scuff the paint that has been on there for 50 or more years, clean again and paint. Primer first, maybe. No primer, yes I've done it like that too. Why remove paint that is stuck good ?? Just clean, scuff, clean and paint. Right or wrong, I only sandblast sheetmetal or brackets.


Posted By: 49clipper
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2023 at 10:00pm
As for as the casting number, I copied a document from a guy on 'Yesterdays tractors AC' discussion board posted on 1/20/02 to help identify a tractors year.  It says the dash number after the AM xxxx- xx is a code for the year date of the casting.   Mine has -25.
(O equals 1938 and 30 is 1958)

Thanks for the info on sandblasting.  First tractor for me.  The tractor I am doing has lots of good paint so that would work well, it's probably the best primer one could have.  The non paint rusted areas, I will have to blast, but I will use a quality primer to prevent more rust.  

Thanks again


Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 9:15am
dont sand blast it at all. you wont get anything that will adhear and protect the metal as well as the original lead based paint and primer. I clean real well. scrape and brush. oven cleaned and hot wash. scuff it tack it and paint it. 15 years later it still looks great. I did feather and prime the sheet metal you have to protect the parts you welded and ground to get smooth. I havent used any body filler. I just weld the cracks and tears. heat and hammer and grind.  the metal is thich and strong enough it takes real well to triditional metal working .


Posted By: 49clipper
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 9:32am
Did you spray the whole tractor or brush paint the cast iron and spray the sheet metal.  I have painted lots over the years and spray painting is the common thing for me.  i do have a paint booth.  Much simpler to brush though.  



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