WD-45 turbo kit
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19160
Printed Date: 07 Feb 2025 at 10:58pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: WD-45 turbo kit
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Subject: WD-45 turbo kit
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 9:27pm
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Ok, whos gunna be the first one to try it. I know i wanna. spendy i bet.
http://www.keystoneturbollc.com/id74.html - http://www.keystoneturbollc.com/id74.html
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Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 9:46pm
| I saw one at the Orange Spectacular this past summer, but it did not look that neat! |
Posted By: OrangeFever
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 9:50pm
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Neat find anybody know the cost. Does anyone make a custom manifold without the turbo to replace stock one? |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 12:24am
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hard copper oil return line looks hooky and liable to crack at the worst time. Also will an allis oil pump keep enough oil to a turbo? I have seen these guys with an M in farmworld. I want to say it was 1500 plus for the kit but its been a while. |
Posted By: Chris(WA)
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 6:07am
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I see the air cleaner is not connected. Is the oil bath cleaner too small to support the increased air volumes of a turboed engine?
Hate to build that kind of power then suck dirt thru it all day! ------------- Washingtonian by choice, Wisconsin Farmboy by the grace of God! |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 6:52am
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I want one! ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 7:10am
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from extensive cylinder head flow testing . it is my opinion that the 226 engine at 7psi of boost would really respond in a hp increase . i would think the carb at 7psi of boost would need to be larger and the ignition would also need upgrade. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 8:04am
------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
mlpankey wrote:Posted By: Pa.Pete
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 8:44am
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Looks like fun. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 9:10am
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I have been kicking around installing a efi fuel system on a puller . just so I would be the first with a lap top hooked to a antique tractor. Could you imagine turbo and efi. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 9:53am
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It says that it will work on a WC. I want one. It would make all the JD fans that tell me the JD 2cyl is better than the AC 4cyl think twice!!
I wonder how much of a power boost it would give a WC. ------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 10:09am
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Going by the chart, you could get 109 hp out of it. But my math may be wrong....
------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 10:24am
| I have seen one on a IH M. The performance was NOT impressive. This was at a couple of antique pulls. I would be concerned with the fuel puddling in the intake pipe between the carb and the turbo. Just my 2cents. - AL |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 12:27pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 1:50pm
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Should be able to put on D17,170,175 and E combine for those who want to pick a little faster. ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 6:53pm
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I'd be leary of putting one of those on a tractor and then plowing all day with it. Might run good and hard for a while, but long term usage I'd be wondering what would happen even if there was enough radiator to keep the coolant under control. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 6:57pm
Or the normal oil pressure of 7 psi in those engines?
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Posted By: smuggler
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 7:47pm
| I would have to say 1500 would be cheap thats a pretty sweet manifold. And i bet not cheap but still looks nice. |
Posted By: norm [ind]
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 8:28pm
| have a freind with one on a D-17 been on for years 5-6 i know of |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 9:50pm
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Norm, does he use it for heavy long term use like plowing? ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TexasAllis
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 7:18am
I would think a higher rate of flow and not pressure would be a more critical factor for turbo oil. Same principle as high volume low pressure hydros.
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Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 9:29am
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They make it sound like the M is reliable. ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 11:41am
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I'm just wondering if the valves/pistons could handle the extra heat of running under 7psi boost, using all of that extra available power for an extended amount of time. Isn't the term brake mean effective pressure? The best example of exceeding BMEP is the super stockers that shoot colums of smoke 100+ ft in the air. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 12:24pm
? I know more than a few people with M's and haven't had issues with them and these are old time farmers. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 1:58pm
| Well , if one good, two should be more better. Twin turbo's and an intercooler, maybe a whiff of NOS, and on it go's |
Posted By: KY
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 3:03pm
| I dont know how the trans, clutch, hand clutch, and diff in those tractors would handle that kinda horse |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 4:25pm
| Guys - I don't think you are going to break anything by adding the charger. You may shorten the power train life. The most you may see from this setup is a 20-25% increase in HP. Sound like a lot, but in reality 7-10 HP. This is a gas engine not a diesel. - AL |
Posted By: smuggler
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 6:59pm
| The Theroy on are tractor with multiple turbos is not to build more boost presure. Its to increase volume of air we dont run alot of boost a touch bit more than 7 psi but not near what a diesel super stock runs. Also dont forget the harder u squeeze the air the hotter it gets. I cant beleve 7psi makes a tremendous amount of heat. |
Posted By: Unstylish
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 9:19pm
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Sorry Mitch, but we already got you beat up here in Michigan..MSD PN 8979.. :)
------------- The problem with reading MLPANKEYS posts, is that they dont make boots that tall. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 6:26am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2010 at 9:42am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 10:51am
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Now please bear with me. I have been working on turbo engines for a long time. None are what you would call high performance engines, they are all high efficient industrial engines and big. Some have turbos that weight 2000 lbs or more. I have also read up about turboing small gas engines and found two different camps, one is for large turbos but they spool up late in the game but give high outputs. This is what most cars do, even the little 2.2L dodge turbos. For a working tractor however or a pickup/work vehicle there are very few gas turbo vehicles out there. The guys that I have read about said that if you do turbo one you want to pick a turbo that goes on an a performance engine about 60percent of the displacement of the engine that you want. So, say for example, a 226 *.6 would be 135 which is about 2.1 liters. So if you took a 2.2 liter dodge turbo/wastegate and put it on a wd45, you would have a much better "working tractor" system. It wouldn't be a powerhouse necessarily for pulling but would have better efficiency and some more power without lag, especially midrange and at high idle. There surely has to be a way to put a downdraft carb after the turbo instead of before like this guy does. Also, I have studied and sized oil bath air cleaners before. They are set up for a certain CFM based on 1 cylinders intake and don't work well at idle (don't get enough oil pulled up) or at higher cfms(pull oil into the intake instead up condensing/precipitating back to the cup) I would think the kit/turbo would suck oil out and there fore dirt with it without going to the next size up aircleaner. Seems like the size of the above mention kit would only power at high idle and even then wouldn't come alive unless you really opened the governor up. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 12:08pm
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I would want to blow through a larger updraft carb. and use a k and n filter on the inlet side with the pipe going through a box filled with 10lbs of dry ice. whats your thoughts on the 2.0 volkswagon diesel turbo. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 1:31pm
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The smaller tubo's I was mentioning would be for farm use, not pulling, at least not dry ice type pulling. I imagine that the 2.0 vw turbo would work well for that but if you want to pull and are opening up the governor you would want a bigger turbo to pull with. Something off of equal displacement or at least 80 percent displacement. Problems with blowing through many carbs is that you cause float/needle seat problems. You have to pressurize the bowl as well to equalize the pressures or you have problems. Make sure you have good throttle shaft seal as well. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 4:38pm
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If I were going to farm I would own a newer than 1950 era tractor. i thought on updraft carbs the air velocity entering syphon the fuel up from the bowl through the jet . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 5:16pm
| Updrafts do siphon fuel,in your earlier post stated you wanted to blow thru, and there lies the problem. Like fire brick states the updraft needle and seat won't be happy with that arrangement. A downdraft would be more better, but I see more plumbing and some fancy governor linkage to make it work, and probably a fuel pump, as gravity might not be reliable. You can do it Mitch. |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 7:14pm
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VW diesel turbos would not be my first choice for gas tractors, as they are not made for the exhaust temps that gas engines can see. Also, VW TDI turbos have a vacuum controlled vane actuator (and the older waste gate ones I believe are vacuum controlled also). Additionally, most TDI engines have a turbo that is integrated with the exhaust manifold. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 7:36pm
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hurst i was just thinking about a low rpm diesel turbo making boost at gas tractor rpms. I do however think 1200 f is 1200f on any internal combustion exhaust. garry i was thinking that the piston created a depression wich is measured in vacuum making the air inlet pressure entering the updraft 14.7psia on a naturally aspirated .so at seven pounds of boost a seven pound fuel pump should keep things equal . most down draft carbs that are made into blow thru carbs have the boosters and venturi worked over to create the correct signal . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 7:56pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 9:06pm
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The way the VW turbos work is they have a computer controlled solenoid valve that opens and closes the vanes on the variable geometry turbo to control boost. It may be possible to find a pressure controlled actuator that will fit and work properly. I feel like the earlier turbos would be a better fit, as they are wastegated turbos and cost considerably less. Maybe something like a Garrett GT15 or a KKK K03 would be good. These were used on early gas and diesel turbo VWs and are some of the smallest turbos around. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 6:25am
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I would tend to think to make the turbo any turbo effecient fuel and ignition timming would need to be mapped to each psi of boost wich would require onboard computer. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 6:40am
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Another thought on the carb issue when blowing through is box it up. Remember the old Paxton superchargers? On carbureted installations they had a box that the carb was in. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 8:12am
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I've got a question for AlinIL why would it only give a allis 20 to 25% increase when it gives the M-450 an 80% increase @ 10psi and the 460-806 100% plus increase and olivers a 100% increase. ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 9:28am
There is a line some where on what psi you can boost and not box it up. I want to say its 7psi? Any thing higher and you need to. Under that if you plug the bowl vent and pressurize it, it will work if your carb is in ok shape. If you are worried about timing maps, why not go to a gm throttle body, a crank sensor and tie every thing together with a megasquirt Mplanky? You can adjust the timing galore as well as the injection. What RPMS are you shooting for? That is going to be the biggest deciding factor in turbo size. Do you care if the power is mostly on top? |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 10:20am
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making hp now thats bending rods at the rpms we are capable of turning . I was just brain storming on the turbo . 400 ci 226 d17 block n/a 3400 rpms with tires hooked when they blowup traction 5000 is blimped till the chip catches up. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 3:42pm
| Good - My estimate is based on 7psi (Super M) and what I have observed at antique tractor pulls. They just dont seem to have much add power(dont seem to spool up fast enough). I assume in field conditions that the extra power is there, since load conditions occur at a slower rate. - AL |
Posted By: Allis Fields
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 4:02pm
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the antique pulls i've went to are stock rpms. when the tractor pulls down on rpm the turbo will slow. It looks cool but in my style of pulling it wouldn't hold its power. My thaughts are displacement is better. |
Posted By: Bee
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 5:37pm
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I emailed these guys, the price is 1550$ plus shipping.
------------- Bob, North Carolina 1949 B |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 7:32pm
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allis fields if it was 100 plus ponies it wouldnt pull down did you get the pics of the bottom end? ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Good
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2010 at 12:16pm
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I see what your saying Al,most pulls around hear though let you be 10 to 20% over on rpms but there not going to let a turbo 45 pull in the stock class anyway just hope for a 4000# open class.I am thinkin twice about getting the kit. I have a fresh engine in a wc that has 45 crank with overbore pistons but I used WD pistons to get compression up and it's pretty close to 9to1. I am wondering if thats to much comp. for a gas turbo setup because they talk quite a bit about having low comp.but then again the diesel is 16to1. What do you guys think? ------------- B212,716,two 314H's,WC,WD,D19,190XT |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2010 at 1:48pm
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It's the difference in fuels. More compression = more heat. More heat = more chance of dentonation (pinging). Diesels don't ping because the fuel isn't there on the compression stroke until the pump pushes it in. Dentonation, pinging, spark knock is basically the same thing. The fuel is being set off by something other than the spark plug. When the fuel ignites from 2 different sources like a glowing bit of carbon and the spark plug, and when the 2 flame fronts collide, the huge spike in cylinder pressure makes the knocking sound. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2010 at 3:29pm
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good fuel 110 or better ,timing backed off a little she would be fine at 9to1 . run it on methanol and you can have a turbo with 12.1 pistons. ps i would run a msd ignition with boost timing control or a three step that retard timing as boost rose . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2010 at 4:27pm
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Pretty much race fuel huh? I suspect the days of going to the air port to get AV fuel are gone. What I used to do with my old Torino that was about 11:1 was put Sunoco 93.5 in it and about 6 moth balls. It seemed to like that "home brew". ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |