My newest favorite mistake. HD6G
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=190539
Printed Date: 25 Apr 2024 at 11:59am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: My newest favorite mistake. HD6G
Posted By: doctorcorey
Subject: My newest favorite mistake. HD6G
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 11:10pm
Well here she is, in all her glory. I told the tow company she weighed in at 16,000+, but the dispatcher told the driver it was 12,500. He must have looked up the Ag crawler specs and didn't know it had a loader and counterweights. That truck was bagging, but hauled it the 30 miles to my house. Seller said it had been down for 'a year' . My guess.....3-5 years. Many controls and linkages stuck, and the tracks wouldn't turn....seller assured me 'it would roll', they had 'moved it with a tractor several times'. HA! I figure the brake bands are rusted up. Anyways, has full oil with a lot of diesel fuel in it, hydraulic fluid is clean and full. Clutch is out. I wonder if diesel dilution in the oil will separate after setting for a long period? Will it float to the top? I'm going to change the fuel filters, flush the lines, put in some batteries, and see if this old B#$ch will fire up. As an old nostalgic mechanic who loves old machines, this is like a mystery novel. I feel like Dorothy finding the Tin Man and loosening up his parts with oil. I will find out all that the seller knew , but didn't tell me, and I will find out how much he didn't know, and why he couldn't keep it running.  ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Replies:
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 7:12am
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if crankcase is full of diesel and it wouldnt stay running the transfter pump seal is shot. hopefully it couldnt build enough fuel pressure and an easy fix. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 10:23am
| This machine look have good undercarriage on and about oiland fuel in pan you could just loosed the drain plug and let fuel comming out until you the oil comming and change the contenair and you can see how oil was in pan |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 10:31am
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
gemdozer wrote:Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2022 at 10:57am
| This motor is a BUDA ALLIS 344 and these filters should ne easy to find, you should removed them and bring them with you to your NAPA DEALER if you can't find a parts number on them |
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 3:18am
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That ought to have a PSB injection pump For which parts are unobtanium Reiterating - As it has been sitting for a questionable time make sure the pump is not stuck before you try to start it
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Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 9:16am
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 9:42am
| Can you post photos of the starter and parts; along with identification tag? I will be over to the rebuilder I use next week and can show them what you need. You may be better off replacing it however. |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 11:24am
 
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 11:39am
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 1:16pm
 My parts manual is a week or so out.------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: HD6 Merv
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 2:02pm
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Dr Corey. Lip seal for fuel transfer pump is skf 4231. Available any good bearing supplier. This is most common cause of diesel getting into engine oil Replaced them on my HD6 with 6000 motor. And im pretty sure lift pump is the same for HD344 engine. Unless of course someone has bored out housing for a different seal. Either way lift pump is a simple gear pump and easy to fix Fuel injection heads are different though; along with injectors from HD344 to 6000 engine ------------- tits tyres and tracks they all cost you money |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 9:50pm
 ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2022 at 10:14pm
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So, today I fabricated a new pin for the starter engagement lever, and reinstalled the starter. I then changed the fuel filters. About that time, it started to get cold and rainy. I got fuel to the primary filter, and figured I'd try to see if the starter would now work. Hit the plunger, and it spun over like a sewing machine. I cranked a few times for a total of probably 20 seconds. It sounds very even, like no dead holes. It started filling the oil filter housing, and sending fuel to the secondary filter. There was nothing in the cylinders that was combustion-worthy....I had went through the intake ports and added a mixture of ATF and Berrymans B12 before manually turning the engine over about 10 revs. I had a small tin bucket over the exhaust, and I did get it to 'rattle' that bucket a few times. It was getting dark, and the rain picked up, and so did my beer intake. I'll get back to it tomorrow, and I think it's going to run. Thanks all of you for your help. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 1:18pm
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: HD6 Merv
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:02pm
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gauge will only really register with engine running, should be around 30 psi, anything over 20 is good. The 2nd fuel filter can be a bugger to bleed. To bleed those psb pumps, remove the 3/4 nut in the centre of the fuel pump head, where the injector pipes come out. And crank until fuel comes out tthere ------------- tits tyres and tracks they all cost you money |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:51pm
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:52pm
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 9:33pm
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It runs! Finally started popping a few cylinders after I got it fully primed and opened the throttle a little. Hydraulics work fine, too. The old 'oil' I drained out had so much diesel in it that I'm sure I could pour it right back in the tank and burn it. Time now to start pulling the main clutch down and pray I can find parts for it. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 11:06pm
| I got all filters thru our local NAPA. Pull the motor to work on/replace the main clutch. Hopefully you have an oil clutch. The adjustment is under the floor board. Usually easy to adjust. Good luck with the old gal. They are a whole lot of fun to operate. Wish I still had the last one I owned. It went to central Nebraska. |
Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 11:12pm
| I've used 2 torches at the same time to heat up those big bolts. Spot weld them on the outside and get the biggest breaker bar on those nuts and start in. While you have it opened up. Replace the radiator hoses. Be careful you don't leave anything laying on top of the motor while starting the motor. I left a 3/8th wrench up there, the fan kicked it thru the radiator. That was $400.00 to fix 20 years ago. |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2022 at 8:03am
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 9:34pm
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 4:08am
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It has been about 15 years since I was in that area! I don't remember there being anything special.
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Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 9:38pm
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 5:53pm
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Got the clutch out, only had to cut off one corroded cover bolt. Pressure plate is cracked. Those three retainers on the outer perimeter are bolted on, and then apparently tack welded to the pressure plate. Clutch disc looked surprisingly good, and is >.375'' at the pads. Anyone have the thickness spec on the clutch disc? There was still plenty of adjustment left on the clutch, I think Hector was right that they just ran it till it burned up, and the heat cracked the pressure plate (perhaps trying to unfreeze the tracks?)......water intrusion through the open inspection port finished the damage. Good news, I peeked into the tranny and it all looks factory shiny and new inside. Any RX on oil type for the trans? Once again, I appreciate all the help with the specifics in this project. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 7:01pm
| The cluch at pad .375 should be very good |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 9:50pm
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Well, I have ordered my clutch parts and sent off the disc to be relined. I then switched to the steering brakes, the left one was stuck like our economy. A little rosebud work and they freed up. I can now rotate the input shaft to the trans and move the machine a little. Tracks are slowly getting freed up by penetrant, pry bars and BFH's. I'm going to try to jack up the machine one side at a time and see how the tracks droop. The old 344 starts right up now and doesn't smoke anymore. Can't wait to be pushing dirt. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 10:29pm
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Sounds like you are on a mission! Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 7:49am
| Tracks will free up considerably once you get to rolling on them with a few gradual turns included. Ensure you keep good tension on them when first starting out as a "stiff" track throws easily. Not too bad on a tractor of your size but a PIA all the same. |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2022 at 9:52am
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Some progress here. Slowly getting the tracks unstuck, steering clutches still stuck. I'm not pushing them too hard, time and pressure usually works better. At least, unlike the bellhousing, they left the steering clutch compartment 'drain' plugs out. I did discover that I don't have a lot of boom down-force. I wasn't running the engine at a very high rpm as I don't have full coolant ( hose leak, waiting for oil-cooler gaskets) so I can only run for very short period. Manual describes possible a sticky spool valve part or broken/collapsed spring. I suppose a fella could have worse problems....... ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2022 at 5:09pm
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Well, I have the new Tyrone HD7-G pump, my clutch complete and installed. Started it up, and tested the hydraulics, went from 750 PSI on old Hydreco to 1500 PSI. It made this pressure just above low idle. Had a lot going on, and tried to roll back the bucket to push against the tracks, and my main hydraulic hose blew, sending a fountain of clean, expensive fluid all over me and everything within 15 feet. Old pump was definitely shot! Hose probably would have blown eventually in a less-convenient location, but still should have backed off the relief valve completely before testing a 'new' pump. Anyway, I set the trans in reverse, and locked back the free right steering clutch, and sort of 'leaned' the clutch against the stuck left clutch. To my surprise, the tractor started moving backwards, quite easily. I sort of bumped the clutch against that steering clutch a few times, and it freed up, a little shuddering was felt. Engaged both clutches, and the machine will roll itself backwards quite nicely, with engine barely above low idle. Still amazed at how much torque these engines make. Last main hyd hose I had made was for my 7G and cost 220$, 10 years ago. Major PITA to remove, as I recall. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2022 at 11:54pm
| You get her all sewed up, she will be fun to run. I had several and enjoyed them. I even got the 1 grandson operating the last one. |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2022 at 10:14am
It spun once while the tracks were really frozen, but it won't budge now. At least if it smokes, I will be able to remove it. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2022 at 5:10pm
Any of you guys ever repair the sheet metal muffler on this HD344 motor. If so, I'd be interested in how you did it and what materials were used. This thing is so loud and exhaust pours out of everywhere except the stack. Plus, I don't like exposing exhaust valves to cold air intrusion or rain water. The 'car muffler' part of it is not very thick, and I have no problem with welding. Also wouldn't mind putting a iron manifold on it if I could find one that costs less than the tractor. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2023 at 7:03pm
Well, a month or so of being submerged in diesel fuel, and a little hammering, and the steering clutch finally unseized from the drum so I could remove it. The entire center of the clutch was stuffed with shredded carpet and mouse  .  ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2023 at 11:24am
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Three or four days soaking the entire clutch pack in hydrochloric acid, and was able to separate the clutch discs. They look like they were nearly new. I replaced all the steels, and springs. Installed grease hoses on the t/o bearing while I was in there. At least I saved the drum $$. That mouse pee, over time, becomes a good imitation of epoxy. Used new brake bands L and R from SC.com. My tractor is now ready to move dirt, but it's rained every day for what seems like a month, and this black Missouri topsoil likes to sink tractors. Still, even with replacing steering clutch and main clutch, I'm still under my $6,000 budget, and can lift, push, or crush anything on my ranch. ------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2023 at 3:54pm
| Nice Work ~ Orangeman |
Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 12:33am
| Way to go guy. I sometimes wish I hadn't traded my last 1 off, but since my left arm went bad, I couldn't work on it. I hope you have fun running the old gal. |
Posted By: doctorcorey
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2023 at 5:25pm
------------- Semper Fi USMC 1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel |